Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last? • Hacker News Board

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#401

Post by walshemj » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:07 PM UTC

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #229

DavidWoof wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always kind of fascinated by posts like this on this site. Could I ask what field you're in that pays 35k/yr, apparently in the US, is in the field of your degree, and yet is somewhat related to Hacker News? Or are you not in tech at all and this site is an outside interest? Or maybe you're just in a rural area? I don't mean this to sound challenging out all, I'm just kind of curious.

Not OP but I've worked places that in London (not exactly cheap to live), they pay a junior developer £18,000 or so - which is under $23,000. In ad agencies, in particular, this seems quite common. Usually by job hopping said junior can bump that by £10k in one go but it doesn't stop the fact people will try it and see if they can get away with it.

Yeh the trouble is Advertising and Marketing where used to employing Graduates with liberal arts degrees for low wages.

With the move to digital when rigor and having tech people who really know there shit Is now important they don't want to pay the rate.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#402

Post by maxsilver » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:07 PM UTC

jotm wrote: post #378

ramses0 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never do anything by yourself which requires a permit (HVAC, Plumbing/Gas, Electrical), unless w.r.t. electrical it's low voltage boxes covered by standard switchplates with the breaker box off. Never do anything structural/load-bearing. Avoid touching window-headers/columns, door-headers/columns, that random beam in the middle of your living room, that random pillar that you wish you know what was for, and that real…

Pretty sick of this, really. I know it's meant to stop idiots from doing work that could endanger them and others, but I've serviced my own boilers, installed my own sockets for years and even laid out the electrical for a whole house. Now some dickwad comes and tells me "man, that is illegal". k

No one ever prevents you from doing your own work, it has never been illegal. You just need to get the permits and pass inspections (just like all licensed electricians / plumbers / etc do).

> I know it's meant to stop idiots from doing work that could endanger them and others

Yes, and it's a lot bigger problem than you might think. You know what you are doing, but 99% of people don't, and they will happily murder the next owner / next occupant through their own malpractice, without even thinking once about it. I've seen professional home builders screw this up and fail inspections, multiple times. It's a real and common risk.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#403

Post by s73ver_ » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #106

throwawayjava wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. I bet you'd get approx. 0 noshows if you bumped salary. > Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. So don't give drug tests? > Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at a…

> I bet you'd get approx. 0 noshows if you bumped salary. I'm not sure exactly what industry the original poster was referring to, but broadly my experience has been that there are many people who are just unreliable. I worked in retail a few years ago, and it was incredible. People just don't show up, or show up so intoxicated from the night before that they're not actually capable of doing their job. Now, as a deve…

Right, people can be flaky, and those that are flaky will continue to be flaky, regardless of the amount paid. But paying more can attract more of the people who aren't flaky.

Those who are good employees are already employed, and probably at a decent compensation level. Whenever this topic comes up, I always ask, "What compelling reason are you giving for people to come work for you?" I never get a satisfactory answer, usually because the people know that they have nothing compelling over the next job.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#404

Post by SilasX » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:12 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #290

SilasX wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a much better idea; any reason this hasn't caught on as a replacement for drug testing? It opens up for a lot of good workers who'd otherwise be rejected, and it is more robust against the thing you actually care about preventing.

Probably because drug tests are not actually about that?

But what would it have to be about, for employers to consistently turn down an approach that gets them access to a bigger class of labor and better filtering for safety?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#405

Post by s73ver_ » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #233

opportune wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't think we should be incentivizing people to show up to work under threat of homelessness/starvation like we did in the past, even if it may be more effective. If people want to live their lives in the "comfort" of SNAP and SSI, I'm personally ok with it. The market will adjust and maybe those blue collar jobs will begin paying even more (or people will adapt)

Nobody questions your personal ability to voluntarily provide for them, though. The question is how much the rest of us are involuntarily having to provide for them, and more relevantly, whether or not society is even really being improved if the result is an increasing number of people so unable / unwilling to contribute to society that they can't even be bothered to show up for an interview. It is very easy to spen…

We don't know what the circumstances of the interview were, though. It easily could be a minimum wage job, and the other people just found something else.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#406

Post by s73ver_ » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:15 PM UTC

Y7ZCQtNo39 wrote: post #21

danielvf wrote: post #9

I worked with small / medium manufacturers in the prosperous part of the Southeast. Hiring is brutal currently. Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of sho…

Pretty sure half of my office at my white collar job wouldn't show up if they started drug testing. But I imagine if we interviewed 20 people for a position, we would most certainly not have 18 no-shows.

Yeah, but your job likely doesn't involve hard, physical labor, and you're likely paying more.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#407

Post by Thlom » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:15 PM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #373

jondubois wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$400k is what senior executives of major multinational companies get paid. It's also what top surgeons get paid. I highly doubt that blue collar workers get anywhere near that much. If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

Top surgeons? My girlfriend’s cousin is a new doctor in Texas and makes a decent amount >$400k as a brand new doctor at a hospital. “”” The salary figures fall short of numbers reported by other survey groups: a Medical Group Management Association report using 2010 data, found that the average compensation for radiologists was $471,253 and for pediatricians it was $192,148, Kaiser Health News reports. “”” http://tim…

No wonder you spend enormous amounts of money on health care in the states. In Norway most doctors makes just above $100,000. I guess this is more or less comparable to the rest of Europe.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#408

Post by s73ver_ » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

linkregister wrote: post #354

cyberpunk0 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No employers will not make reasonable accommodations. Business is profit over people, you requiring accommodations means more effort for them. Just try to tell your employer you have depression and see how "reasonably accommodating" they will be.. capitalism is disease

When you graduate, at your first tech job you'll have to sit through various mandatory training. One of those describes the employer's requirements under U.S. (or EU) law. One of those requirements is "reasonable accommodation," which is a term that means that employers face big lawsuits from the government if they don't reasonably accommodate employee disabilities. This means that if an employee has a condition that…

Yes, those things can happen. Doesn't mean they will. Remember, a large chunk of people in this country are working under at-will employment. That means that if the company doesn't want to accommodate you, they don't have to; they just let you go without saying why. The onus is now on you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and spending large amounts of money on legal fees to do so) that you were let go because of that.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#409

Post by vkou » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

darpa_escapee wrote: post #306

vkou wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If BAC tests pinged you as drunk three weeks after having a drink, you really wouldn't.

That could be fought while there is little leeway in terms of fighting "my training and 15 years of experience allowed me to determine that the subject was impaired".

In theory, yes. In practice, no. You may be sober as a judge at work, but you'll be out on your ass before you blink if you fail a drug test.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#410

Post by 49para » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

ramses0 wrote: post #312

southphillyman wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

Never do anything by yourself which requires a permit (HVAC, Plumbing/Gas, Electrical), unless w.r.t. electrical it's low voltage boxes covered by standard switchplates with the breaker box off. Never do anything structural/load-bearing. Avoid touching window-headers/columns, door-headers/columns, that random beam in the middle of your living room, that random pillar that you wish you know what was for, and that real…

Easy to do electrical yourself. I guess it depends on where you live but a self-wire permit just needs you to walk through your plan and get a couple inspections. It's intimidating for sure but it was really easy to wire my basement. It might need some years of school/experience to do a whole house but once you do one light/switch/outlet they are pretty much all the same.