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FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

washingtonpost.com

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Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#121

Post by febeling »

Suppose the majority of ISPs was to move to a direction were some significant portion of internet services was "shaped" or throttled in some way that was imposing real disadvantages or inconveniences for the user: wouldn't that open a seizable opportunity for a new player to offer "real" unrestricted connectivity?

I believe it if someone walks us through the incentive structure here step by step, or explains the natural-monopoly nature of this market or something. But just by implying it or pretending this to obvious I'm not convinced.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#122

Post by SimonPStevens »

Question for HN...

As a non-american, what can I do to help you?

I'm from the UK, and I'm fairly worried that if this happens in the US, we'll be next.

I obviously don't have a US representative to call. Is there anything I can do to support the net neutrality fight?

(Will donate to EFF if I can think of nothing better)

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#123

Post by dragonwriter »

xienze wrote: post #33
tclancy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There wasn't money to be made for most of that time. Once there was and utilities discovered they wouldn't get much of it and started to mess about, rules were introduced.

No money to be made in say, 2005-2015?

The FCC adopted the “Network Freedoms” principles and initiated it's first case-by-case action regarding neutrality (the Madison River case over blocking access to Vonage which was settled with a agreement to stop doing that and pay a fine) in 2004-2005. It continued case-by-case enforcement of the principles until the 2010 D.C. Circuit decision in Comcast v. FCC stopped that.

The 2010 and 2015 Open Internet orders were a replacement for case-by-case enforcement.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#124

Post by dinoleif »

charonn0 wrote: post #112
dinoleif wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are customers "held hostage"? If you sign up for an internet plan that promises not to throttle certain sites and then that provider throttles those sites, you can sue them. If you sign up for an internet plan that makes no such promises, why would one expect anything different? This may sound like a harsh reality, but it's called "taking personal responsibility" and "voting with your feet". Switch to ano…

> Switch to another internet provider. That's not an option for most Americans, and part of the reason why net neutrality is necessary.

This is plainly false.

Most households have multiple internet providers.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#125

Post by rsynnott »

dragonwriter wrote: post #48
falcolas wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To just equal Comcast's estimated lobbying budget of $20 million, it would require somewhere north of 300,000 people all contributing $5 a month. Given you'd also be fighting against Verizon, Google, Netflix, and any number of other companies, you'd probably need a member count close to a million to make anything resembling headway. A million members making reoccurring contributions is beyond what is realistic, IMO.

Google and Netflix are both pro-neutrality, not anti-; you'd be lobbying with rather than against them on this issue.

They are currently, but there's an argument that incumbent giants would actually benefit from the end of net neutrality, as it would disproportionately disadvantage startups. So in the long term, don't bet on them staying on the same side.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#126

Post by pneill »

Crespyl wrote: post #107
pneill wrote: post #32

Maybe I'm lone dissenter, but I don't understand the push back on this. People who read hacker news should be among the elite technologist, do we really all believe that every packet should be treated the same? Should an E911 call or tele-surgery packets really be treated the same as Netflix? Net neutrality forces the ISP to do that and that seems like madness to me.

Quality-of-Service controls for different classes of traffic are already an important part of how the internet works, but is entirely separate from Net Neutrality. An operator like Verizon, for example, that runs phone service (including emergency calls) over the same lines as their standard internet service pretty much has to prioritize packet types differently. This is expected and understood by all parties. The Ne…

Good point, but if there was real competition in the ISP market, you could switch providers that do this. Don't fight for net neutrality. Fight for ISP marketplace

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#127

Post by stefantheard »

ams6110 wrote: post #95
sharemywin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you won't see it. they will force netflix to pay them more. And the charge will be passed on to all subscribers.

That's fine. Then I can decide if I want to pay that price for Netflix or not. I also have Amazon Prime video, and Youtube, and etc. so I have several competing choices.

It would be more interesting if Netflix passed it on to subscribers specifically from the ISP that charges them. Then you can as a consumer make a better decision factoring in the increased price of goods with one ISP over another.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#128

Post by shepardrtc »

ng-user wrote: post #77
obmelvin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to have a quick shout out to Tom Wheeler. I was very worried when he was first appointed, but it was great to see someone who used their experience lobbying to stand up for consumers instead of continuing to act in corporate interests.

It'd be nice if Pai came around all of a sudden too..

Pai is just a hatchet-man. He was never meant to seriously lead the FCC.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#129

Post by [deleted] »

steveadoo wrote: post #119
dinoleif wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are customers "held hostage"? If you sign up for an internet plan that promises not to throttle certain sites and then that provider throttles those sites, you can sue them. If you sign up for an internet plan that makes no such promises, why would one expect anything different? This may sound like a harsh reality, but it's called "taking personal responsibility" and "voting with your feet". Switch to ano…

There IS no other provider. At least not for me. And pretty much everyone I know. We wouldn't need net neutrality if the ISPs didn't have a monopoly.

[deleted]

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#130

Post by 52-6F-62 »

ams6110 wrote: post #95
sharemywin wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you won't see it. they will force netflix to pay them more. And the charge will be passed on to all subscribers.

That's fine. Then I can decide if I want to pay that price for Netflix or not. I also have Amazon Prime video, and Youtube, and etc. so I have several competing choices.

Not if all of those services are lumped into a bundle that you pay a blanket price for each month, separate from the rest of your online services.
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