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FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

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Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#91

Post by arcbyte »

vorpalhex wrote: post #53
dinoleif wrote: post #40

"Net neutrality" is one of the most Orwellian terms in modern usage. It's a corporate welfare play by large tech companies to "solve" a "problem" that nobody can identify. It's pre-emptive, busy-body regulation at its worst. Who was being harmed in the first 20 years of the internet without these regulations? Whose lives have been made better? Compared to what? Net neutrality advocates are utterly unable to give conv…

Does your ISP have the ability to censor the internet for you? Do you watch Netflix? If you don't, that's ok, because most consumers do use it or a competing service. Internet Companies absolutely did try to charge Netflix extra, and in some cases throttled them. This was well documented. I don't know if you're a corporate shill or just genuinely lack the ability to comprehend how bad this is. Spectrum, Verizon and t…

Are you referring to the topic in this 2014 article refuting your claim about "internet companies" trying to charge Netflix extra? When in fact Netflix's own ISP, who Netflix rightly pays, was actually doing critically important network management.

I am attentive to Net Neutrality arguments because I care about an open internet, but I have yet to hear one that doesn't betray a total lack of understanding of how the internet actually works; i.e., peering. Perhaps counterintuitively, the FCC is right on the money about rolling back Obama's populist regulations.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#92

Post by [deleted] »

e1ven wrote: post #59
jjoonathan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To where? Or are you one of those lucky few who have a choice of ISP?

It's not there yet, but mobile broadband is becoming increasingly viable. It's far from ideal, but 4 (soon 3) competitors are better than the 1 choice I have for wired broadband.

[deleted]

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#93

Post by LeifCarrotson »

EnderMB wrote: post #14
ryanmarsh wrote: post #11

This fight will not end until we enact legislation codifying net neutrality into law. This issue is to important for a notice to simply be overlooked in the federal register before a ruling is made.

I'm not American, so I don't know how this works, but would it not be a good idea to fight lobbying with lobbying? Create a lobbying group, funded by a mix of regular people and businesses that push towards the ultimate aim of net neutrality being a part of national and international law. I think a lot of people are sick of having to contact their representatives, or don't do it because it's a burden. I imagine many…

> I think a lot of people are sick of having to contact their representatives, or don't do it because it's a burden.

Contacting representatives is not what the lobbyists are selling. Neither is taking them to dinner and buying them a filet mignon. What they're selling over those dinners is future donations to their election campaign and future cushy jobs after they leave the bureaucracy and go into industry. A private PAC can't offer that.

Some of these groups (like the NRA or AARP) can't offer as much in donations or future jobs, but they can offer a large group of voters, which has similar value to a donation to a campaign.

The belief that what's needed is a person to talk to your representatives is naive.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#94

Post by arcbyte »

arcbyte wrote: post #91
vorpalhex wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your ISP have the ability to censor the internet for you? Do you watch Netflix? If you don't, that's ok, because most consumers do use it or a competing service. Internet Companies absolutely did try to charge Netflix extra, and in some cases throttled them. This was well documented. I don't know if you're a corporate shill or just genuinely lack the ability to comprehend how bad this is. Spectrum, Verizon and t…

Are you referring to the topic in this 2014 article refuting your claim about "internet companies" trying to charge Netflix extra? When in fact Netflix's own ISP, who Netflix rightly pays, was actually doing critically important network management. I am attentive to Net Neutrality arguments because I care about an open internet, but I have yet to hear one that doesn't betray a total lack of understanding of how the i…

Forgot to actually post the article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrydownes/2014/11/25/how-netf...

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#95

Post by ams6110 »

sharemywin wrote: post #68
ams6110 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are dropping cable due to the heavy-handed control and lack of choice. Why would ISPs want emulate that failing model? If Comcast is going to try to charge me more to be able to access Netflix, I'm gone.

you won't see it. they will force netflix to pay them more. And the charge will be passed on to all subscribers.

That's fine. Then I can decide if I want to pay that price for Netflix or not. I also have Amazon Prime video, and Youtube, and etc. so I have several competing choices.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#96

Post by dfee »

CodeCube wrote: post #49
pneill wrote: post #32

Maybe I'm lone dissenter, but I don't understand the push back on this. People who read hacker news should be among the elite technologist, do we really all believe that every packet should be treated the same? Should an E911 call or tele-surgery packets really be treated the same as Netflix? Net neutrality forces the ISP to do that and that seems like madness to me.

It shouldn't be up to the individual and profit-seeking ISPs to decide that E911 and tele-surgery packets get priority. If there's a QoS concern for something, and it's deemed important enough, this is a perfectly rational place for regulation to step in and mandate it from every ISP equally.

Oh, no! The point here is that regulating the internet is dangerous – Net Neutrality un-regulates it.

We don't want every administration for the next 100 years to treat the internet as a victim of regulatory abuse, pushing it and pulling it towards their vision of "beautiful".

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#98

Post by ProAm »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #47
ProAm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end, especially on HN, it comes down to a discussion regarding money and who is allowed to make it and who is not. You'll find startups opposed because it hinders their opportunity to disrupt an established business, and you'll find entrenched business opposed to not making money as they see fit. There is nothing political about this discussion, it's just about money and which side of the coin you are trying t…

Except in this case all of the entrenched, large internet businesses (Google, Facebook, etc) are against ending net neutrality. You would think that since they have the deep pockets to pay ISPs, they would be the beneficiaries. So are they protesting this action simply out of principal? Or is there some other benefit they get from net neutrality that I'm not seeing?

> So are they protesting this action simply out of principal?

No they are protesting to protect their wallet as well. If suddenly ISP's feel you should have to pay extra to use Google, that will have an immediately and direct affect on Google's revenue. That is why they are protesting.

Re: FCC plan would give Internet providers power to choose the sites customers see

#99

Post by wnevets »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #56
wnevets wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "If you like your cable company, you'll love what this does for the Internet" HAHAHHAHAA, wow they're not even trying

That quote was from Tom Wheeler, ex-chairman of the FCC who opposes ending net neutrality. He was being sarcastic.

Oh good.
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