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Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

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Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#131

It is ironic that she is condemning an institution which made it possible for her to write so well and be able to think so originally and creatively. Perhaps she has forgotten, or is unaware, that without the schooling she received, without the need to complete those assignments, or prepare for those tests, she would hardly have been so motivated for the future and full of passion because whatever she might say, she…

Yes, we need to teach children to recall certain facts and apply various algorithms. The great thing about imagination, though, is that we can dream of a world where we are taught these things without being trained to submit to authority or be swallowed up by an organization.

I think her point is that learning the basics that are taught in primary school hardly necessitates being molded to fit within an industrial-age corporation

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone starts learning a foreign language at 7th grade something is wrong I think. Question: Is this the general case for US Education?

Meant to upvote this. Started learning German in 2nd grade, but that's only because my dad was in the US Army and we were stationed in Germany at the time. Learning a language at that age (and younger ) should always be an option for kids as their minds are like sponges at that point. That early exposure always kept me interested in foreign cultures and their languages, too: Japanese, French, and of course, German. E…

if your mind was literally a sponge, I think you would cease to live.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meant to upvote this. Started learning German in 2nd grade, but that's only because my dad was in the US Army and we were stationed in Germany at the time. Learning a language at that age (and younger ) should always be an option for kids as their minds are like sponges at that point. That early exposure always kept me interested in foreign cultures and their languages, too: Japanese, French, and of course, German. E…

if your mind was literally a sponge, I think you would cease to live.

...it's a fitting metaphor. Meh.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with her, well, sure a little. The fact is, like capitalism, the schooling system is the worst system, except for all the others. And for the majority, it is great for them. I think this is one of the areas where it is so easy to criticize, because of course there are problems, unless someone actually recommends a good alternative system, I just ignore them.

Total nonsense. Lots of other countries have vastly better grade schools (pg mentions this in one of his essays). Do you think all the people in those countries just have a lot more potential than most Americans? The worst thing about this ridiculous "America is the best!" attitude is that you can't fix anything if you think you've already got the best that can be done.

"Do you think all the people in those countries just have a lot more potential than most Americans?"

Yes, for the above reasons you mentioned.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#135

It is ironic that she is condemning an institution which made it possible for her to write so well and be able to think so originally and creatively. Perhaps she has forgotten, or is unaware, that without the schooling she received, without the need to complete those assignments, or prepare for those tests, she would hardly have been so motivated for the future and full of passion because whatever she might say, she…

The institution she is condemning is not necessarily responsible for her talent in writing. It is entirely possible to learn facts outside of the modern school system, and many students learn outside of the classroom by pursuing their own interests. The real issue here is that the modern American school system is not designed to facilitate learning and growth, but rather it is designed to act as a daycare that produc…

By her own admission, she had no time to do anything else but study.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#136

It is ironic that she is condemning an institution which made it possible for her to write so well and be able to think so originally and creatively. Perhaps she has forgotten, or is unaware, that without the schooling she received, without the need to complete those assignments, or prepare for those tests, she would hardly have been so motivated for the future and full of passion because whatever she might say, she…

Yes, we need to teach children to recall certain facts and apply various algorithms. The great thing about imagination, though, is that we can dream of a world where we are taught these things without being trained to submit to authority or be swallowed up by an organization. I think her point is that learning the basics that are taught in primary school hardly necessitates being molded to fit within an industrial-ag…

How can you control a class of twenty students without some sort of authority and without requiring some sort of submission?

I realised what she said perhaps at a younger time than her age, maybe when I was 14, but as I have grown I have come to realise that I do owe much to that very system towards which I shared her feelings. Indeed perhaps it was because of that institution that I was able to even think such thoughts, and have such realisation and gain such understanding about such a great picture as an entire institution.

We should indeed find ways to improve our schools and perhaps even find such ways in this big picture scale. But you can not simply condemn this institution through some rhetoric. She says nothing specific and hardly offers any suggestions seeing as she is fresh from this institution and would perhaps know better than more how things can be improved.

And I submit, that she is unaware that she owes so much to that institution and that institution has offer her so much. She might not like it, but I doubt she could suggest that she is not the better for it.

Also, I do not think students are robots. They have plenty of freedom. Two weeks holidays every six weeks of teaching, six weeks summer holidays, then they have literature where they can be as creative as they like, and arts, and music, and sport, and plenty of afternoon free time. They hardly can be uncritical, but they do as they must learn that criticism, however truthful, has a price, especially if aimed at the powerful, i.e, teachers.

Unfortunately, there is no other way but to teach kids maths, how to read, biology, history, the facts and make them memorise them. If they don't remember the specifics, then their memory would improve, which I think correlates highly with intelligence, especially working memory, and they will learn plenty of other things, such as to see the bigger picture as she has. I doubt that without those literature classes she would have been able to, or without those history classes, or...

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#137
Someone mentioned Montessori schools, which seem to do pretty well. Another along similar lines, but more extreme, is Sudbury Valley schools: http://www.sudval.org/

Kids are taught whatever they ask to be taught. They aren't divided into classes, they can just wander around the campus asking for help from any teacher they like. If you start kids young in this environment it works really well; kids are hard-wired to learn as much as possible if you don't make it a miserable experience.

Something else they do: every kid gets a vote in school decisions. A kid's vote counts as much as a teacher's. It's like they're teaching kids to be citizens in a democracy, instead of subjects in a dictatorship.

I once read that (iirc) New Zealand used to have horrible public schools, and fixed it with this system:

- Every parent can send their kids to whatever school they wish.

- Each school is directed entirely by the parents, with no interference from government bureaucracy.

- Each school gets $X per enrolled student.

It took about ten years to shake out, then they had great schools.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#138

Someone mentioned Montessori schools, which seem to do pretty well. Another along similar lines, but more extreme, is Sudbury Valley schools: http://www.sudval.org/ Kids are taught whatever they ask to be taught. They aren't divided into classes, they can just wander around the campus asking for help from any teacher they like. If you start kids young in this environment it works really well; kids are hard-wired to l…

The Sudbury Valley model is definitely an extreme as far as the freedom & responsibility it invests in its students -- the school decisions you mention include expelling students, whether to rehire each teacher every year, etc.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#139
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? You can develop grit by doing things that really suck, but ultimately get you somewhere you want to go, or that leads to some sort of innovation down the line. But to force people to do things that are completely unrelated to what they want to do in life, just for the sake of doing it, is a huge waste of time. You gain grit by doing things that need to be done, hopefully in pursuit of some greater goal (more…

By my observation of the vast majority of people at school I would say... most people would just procrastinate and get nowhere if you just leave them to find something to work towards. School sucks; but I think it is a bit of a dirty hack to keep kids minds on something for a few years. It needs a major revamp and broadening of the curriculum (so that those who do want to think independently can do their own thing).…

When your stomach is not filled with food, you tend to work for what you need.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#140
post #115
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If school taught me anything is that unless im working for myself on what i want, its better to just half ass everything, and not do your best, because all it takes is to not be your worst This is so true. I realized this very thing myself in the second year in high school. I thought: what the hell am I doing trying to get good grades—from every subject? I had been doing precisely that just because I could and with t…

careful on dismissing which European country invaded which European country etc. Unless people have a good understanding of history, they're doomed to repeat it. Something that becomes very clear in times of strife such as the recent world financial crisis. One thing that school is good for is exposing you to ideas that are normally outside your sphere of interest, thus attempting to give you a balanced view of the w…

Granted, they're not completely successful at this but I think a lot of that has to do with our immaturity and privileged upbringing as much as it has to do with boring subjectss

That is mostly caused by the school systems. Our parents go to their job, and we go to schools.

We are forced into an artificial society of children, and with teachers as authorities. So, we learn what other children like, missing altogether the wisdom and experience(if there are any) of the adults.

So children become very shallow in their taste and what they think is cool.

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