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Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

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101–110 of 213 posts

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#102

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

how many friends do you know who say "oh i'm so much smarter than all these tools who got good grades" but then they can never actually finish any one of their 'divinely-inspired' projects because they quit as soon as some part gets tedious or boring?

There certainly are lazy people claiming to be smarter than those with good grades.

But in my experience, the students with perfect grades are far more likely to excel at school than at anything else.

When I started teaching at NYU, I ran into a lot of these students. They typically rocked my calculus 1-2 classes; they took calculus in high school but wanted to maintain a 4.0 GPA so they took it again in college.

Even in school, past a certain point, it doesn't serve them well. In Calc 3 or Linear Algebra (two more advanced classes I've taught), you must think for yourself to pass, rather than just applying the differentiation algorithm. That's when the 4.0's get pwned.

It gets even worse when I interview them for a job and ask them an open ended question: "Looking at XXX data, how can you estimate YYY? What other data would be useful?"

Many of them are reasonably smart. But they've spent years preparing themselves for schooling, not for actually building things. I'll take the kid with lower grades + open source project any day .

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#103

One common remark on HN seems to be that high school is not challenging/interesting. One way to fix that would be to put pupils into different schools according to their ability. Several European countries do it that way, usually around age 12.

I have a huge problem with that. It sickens me to think of categorising children/pupils (and even human beings for that matter) on any basis. There are many objections that I have against it, but the most pressing is "This will lead to no interdisciplinary or inter-school-of-thought discussions."

We need to understand how we categorize students. The fist thing that comes in anybodies mind is ability. But how do you measure ability? Everyone has a particular area of work she/he is good at. Then how will you measure their ability. I may am not be good with spellings, but may be I can write better prose. He may not be able to master the subjects of Mechanical Engineering but my god can he modify a car.

If you put children in different schools based on there ability in different fields, then that would need to field stagnations. Sometimes a short story would inspire a few innovations in neuroscience. We need to have discussions between people from different fields.

Also if you make another standardized test to test pupils abilities would that not have the same result. They would be just as bored, but with better people around them. Who is to ensure that they would not be bored by what they are taught.

Also such a process would lead to elitism, similar to what we have in the current academia. If you are not from your countries best college, then you would have a bloody hard time to get research grants and such.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#104

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

Translation: life sucks, better teach that to kids early.

Life doesn't suck, and we shouldn't deliberately make the lives of children boring and tedious.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#106

ok, for all you school-haters out there on HN, one thing that i think is often overlooked in the 'discussion' of how public schooling is such a mind-numbing rote memorization grind is the fact that it is a way of developing grit, discipline, whatever you call it ... the ability to endure through boring or tedious tasks to achieve some measurable goal. i think that for most people, the biggest determiner of 'success'…

how many friends do you know who say "oh i'm so much smarter than all these tools who got good grades" but then they can never actually finish any one of their 'divinely-inspired' projects because they quit as soon as some part gets tedious or boring? There certainly are lazy people claiming to be smarter than those with good grades. But in my experience, the students with perfect grades are far more likely to excel…

I don't know if it's this way at every level, but the one quarter of an MSNA (I think that's the acronym) prep course I had to take in tech school was chapter after chapter of lists of steps. If that's the way the other three quarters are, I don't know how a Windows administrator fresh out of school could handle an unexpected situation.

"Go through these menus to achieve x" won't help you when some joker breaks explorer and forces you to work with the command line.

Either way, I'm glad I went the Linux admin route. The instructor for the classes was about as quirky as you'd expect a Linux admin teacher to be, and all four quarters were a load of fun.

If any of my grade school classes had been like that, I wouldn't have hated it so much.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#107
The truly mind expanding experiences I've had in my life have come from meeting new people, engaging them in conversation, and trying to learn how to get along. Meeting people who were interesting before they ever went to college, or were interesting despite never having gone.

"Well, you meet people in college!" You'd get a better experience starting a rock band, joining a community service group (or hell, joining the military, it's a similar time commitment and they pay you), all activities essentially free compared to college. If anything, the system of accreditation, the politics of the teacher-student relationship, and the financial concerns of meeting even the most modest tuition rates are nothing but impediments to "expanding ones mind".

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#108
post #73
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also said he would try hard to forget that the earth went round the sun, so that he could reuse the memory space for other things.

If he'd spent some space on neurology, he'd know that forgetting things doesn't create space for new memories.

It's worth remembering that the first Sherlock Holmes book is of significantly lower quality than the rest of them, and doesn't fit the canon of the later stories.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#109
It is ironic that she is condemning an institution which made it possible for her to write so well and be able to think so originally and creatively.

Perhaps she has forgotten, or is unaware, that without the schooling she received, without the need to complete those assignments, or prepare for those tests, she would hardly have been so motivated for the future and full of passion because whatever she might say, she knows very well that the education she has received has given her so much and will allow her so many more opportunities.

She does however forget to mention how her visionary education could be? What do we do, not teach kids maths? not teach them the thermodynamic laws which personally I have forgotten but have a vague recollection of them, not teach students of biology, history, geography? Does she suppose that a seven year old, ten, 12, 14, 16, year old can so freely be creative without knowing anything whatever of the facts. Should such student be allowed to imagine what our history was, or how our biology works so that he can be "creative". Does she actually know what to be creative is?

Whatever might be wrong with out educational system, unfortunately some things are basic and simply must be learned. We simply need to teach our kids to read, to do maths, physics, biology, history, art, music, sport, literature. Not simply let them imagine how it could be but yes make them memorise the facts, make them learn the fact. You might forget them the next month, but in the long run you learn the basics of each of these fields. You learn you have a heart and other organs and an immune system and the basic of history, lit, etc.

It is fine to simply shout foul, and for the top in the class that is their past hobby, impatient with themselves, believing themselves to be leaders when they so immature still, but we have been teaching for more than two millennia. You can not simply discredit all this experience with some rhetoric.

As for the creative part, that happens in university. If you did not learn the basics that are taught in primary school, and then on advance, you hardly would be able to independently arrive at this stage of creativity in a meaningful way, that is to gather the facts, learn them, understand them, understand how they relate, synthesise them together, and come up with suggestions as to how things can be improved.

But by all means throw stones as long as your house is not made of glass.

Re: Valedictorian Speaks Out Against Schooling in Graduation Speech

#110
Oh come on now, Valedictorian, you can find plenty of important life skills to be learned in school if you only look hard enough:

  kindergarden    - learn how to play nicely together
  first grade     - learn how to read and write
  second grade    - learn how to add, subtract, multiply, & divide
  third grade     - learn how to spell
  fourth grade    - learn how to play a musical instrument
  fifth grade     - learn how to appreciate great literature
  sixth grade     - learn how we got where we are
  seventh grade   - learn a foreign language
  eighth grade    - learn how to type and use a computer
  ninth grade     - learn how the world is put together
  tenth grade     - learn about other people in the world
  eleventh grade  - learn how to balance a job and school
  twelveth grade  - learn how to plan for and dream about the future
  freshman year   - learn how many other kinds of people are out there
  sophomore year  - learn how to chug a beer, fill a bong, and get laid
  junior year     - learn how to stand upon the shoulders of giants
  senior year     - learn how to find your place in the world
  graduate school - learn how to play nicely together, all over again
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