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Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

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Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#111

Post by mtpn »

drawnwren wrote: post #39
mtpn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that would be ideal, I do think it’s at least slightly crazy to truly expect that people delivering food are not somewhat depending on tips to make it work. That’s just how it goes in the real world!

This certainly isn't how it goes outside of the US. Why should delivering food suddenly change this vs say driving a truck or car share?

I’m not at all suggesting that it should be the way it is. Instacart only operates in the US though, so I figured it was safe to take that as the context.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#112

Post by mtpn »

imgabe wrote: post #22
mtpn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that would be ideal, I do think it’s at least slightly crazy to truly expect that people delivering food are not somewhat depending on tips to make it work. That’s just how it goes in the real world!

It doesn't have to go that way if we (all of us, customers and employees alike) refuse to accept that it should go that way.

I agree. I was pointing out that if this commenter “expects” the employee is adequately compensated by the price paid to the company for the service, they are mistaken. I don’t think relying on the individual discretion of each customer to willingly part with extra cash for you should be the foundation of a whole job’s viability. But currently, it is.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#113

Post by mtpn »

ionised wrote: post #109
mtpn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that would be ideal, I do think it’s at least slightly crazy to truly expect that people delivering food are not somewhat depending on tips to make it work. That’s just how it goes in the real world!

The US is not the world.

Instacart only operates in the US though, so seemed like reasonable context for the comment I was referring to. But I see your point in my choice of “the real world” in my comment. Badly worded.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#114

Post by SirZimzim »

louprado wrote: post #67
jeremyt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy, but when I use one of these services, I expect the service to be reflected in the price.

I often wonder what uplift the U.S. economy gets because consumers are lured by an initial low price that doesn't include service fees, taxes, gratuities, etc. It's like an accepted form of bait-and-switch , which is a proven tactic that increases sales.

The worst part is the effort required to see your actual price. Especially if it requires creating an account for a new service.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#115

Post by Feniks »

_m8fo wrote: post #14
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #6

I recently ordered from DoorDash, a similar service. The app gave me a price for the order and then had a line item called “Dasher Tip” and asked me how much I wanted to put down. I put in $20. Later when the woman arrived with the food, we stopped to talk for a minute. She was a little younger than my mom, and said she had just started working for the service after her husband died. She asked me if she could ask me…

Your story is a great reminder to why tipping is pointless (among many other reasons, such as [1]) If you do decide to tip, you should hand the person you want to have the money cash -- that's the only way you can be for sure they're gonna get it. [1] http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/articles/27/

Cultural thing: I tip the pizza guy €2. Because it IS a tip. He still gets his hourly wage from Domino's. Also its still mostly kids doing that job.

As I understand it in the US tips have replaced standard payment.

I'm sure the gig economy will drive my country into the gutter sooner or later though. Can't stop progress.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#117

Post by conanbatt »

louprado wrote: post #67
jeremyt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy, but when I use one of these services, I expect the service to be reflected in the price.

I often wonder what uplift the U.S. economy gets because consumers are lured by an initial low price that doesn't include service fees, taxes, gratuities, etc. It's like an accepted form of bait-and-switch , which is a proven tactic that increases sales.

Great questions that behavioral economics studies.

The answer is that the perceived utility varies on how you perceive the price. This is why an item tagged 10U$S looks less interesting than the item tagged -20U$S- 50% off. The latter looks more valuable to our brain on anchoring, but there really isn't an objective difference. Thus , even though as a user you know the discounts are bs, you still prefer to see the discount thing.

Gratuities have the added complexity that people will tip differently on personal preference. I am one of those that dislike tips. I come from a country where tips are relatively low,and I find the tipping amounts in the U.S. borderline offensive. Are waiters supposed to get 20% of the restaurants revenue in tips? But, its like price differentiation: it allows the same recipients to pay more.

I wish it didn't have to be this way, but if a business does get more money with these systems, they should do it, and if people are willing to pay more money with these setups they will tend to pay for it.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#118

Post by grandalf »

icebraining wrote: post #108
CryptoPunk wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shows basic economics is right again. Division of labour makes the economy more productive and society more prosperous. The investor/worker roles are such a division of labour.

Or it just shows that apps need some time to stabilize. The early versions of VC-funded apps are not always great either, to say the least.

Both are true.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#119

Post by grandalf »

omegaworks wrote: post #56
grandalf wrote: post #21

The gig economy is always going to be more volatile than full-time work. This is why grocery stores had not already hired full time drivers to deliver groceries, and why there is demand for Instacart. It's the same with Uber. During a rainy day rush-hour there are rarely any medallion cabs available, so Uber created a way to get transportation on those days (surge pricing) that incentiveizes drivers to work during th…

> The gig economy is always going to be more volatile than full-time work. This is not an excuse to short-change the people doing the labor. I can't repeat this enough.

> I can't repeat this enough.

How are they being short-changed? If someone makes $10 per hour some of the time, $8 on average, with some "hours" amounting to $1 per hour, why is that a) unfair or b) a problem, assuming the average wage is itself fair and the worker wants to continue doing the job?

From a labor power standpoint, gig economy firms are significantly weaker than industrial firms. Most Uber drivers have the Lyft app running at the same time, and soon enough they might have several more running (including one that is from a worker-run cooperative).

So gig economy firms have very little market power over employees. They simply offer infrastructure for matching supply and demand and take a bit of profit in the process.

The only way for gig economy firms to succeed is via employee loyalty. There has been some indication that they are competing for loyalty, but I think so far it's mostly just funneling VC money into financial incentives, not long-term loyalty.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#120

Post by sushid »

justboxing wrote: post #53
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #6

I recently ordered from DoorDash, a similar service. The app gave me a price for the order and then had a line item called “Dasher Tip” and asked me how much I wanted to put down. I put in $20. Later when the woman arrived with the food, we stopped to talk for a minute. She was a little younger than my mom, and said she had just started working for the service after her husband died. She asked me if she could ask me…

> I had tipped her. $20. She showed me her phone with the app on our order. DoorDash told her we had tipped her $6 This is why I almost always tip in Cash. I hand it to the person, in person. San Francisco's Indian Restaurants (Indian here, and I go to the Indian restaurants here all the time, that's how I know) are notorious for not passing on any of the tips left on the card to the waitstaff, and some even don't gi…

Seriously!? I go to Indian restaurants in SF all the time and I've only ever paid by card. Do the waiters get to keep the tip if you give it to them with cash?
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