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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

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Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#231

Post by Anechoic »

jabretti wrote: post #39
MBCook wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting other companies build their own subways? A subway seems like a natural monopoly to me.

You could contract different lines out to different companies. I think Tokyo does this. At the very least, though, you could contract out the running of the whole system to a company for five years a time and let different companies compete for the contract every five years. This isn't a panacea, but it can sometimes help if the main problem is corruption-induced inefficiency as it seems to be for most major cities i…

The MBTA in Boston does this with its commuter rail lines. Currently the contract is held by Keolis, before that, a consortium of companies led by Veolia Transportation. You can Google "MBTA commuter rail performance" to see how well that's worked out.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#232

Post by exelius »

briandear wrote: post #207
flexie wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

Not generally like that in mug of Texas. Houston proper has some questionable roads — but that has been due to a series of mayors that are more interested in farmers markets and “pocket parks” than actually doing the dirty work of actually running a city. The state of Texas has great roads. Far better than anything you see in places like NY, NJ or other states with Byzantine labor agreements. I live in France now and…

I realize some of this is YMMV, but IAH is one of my least-favorite airports in the US. It was probably one of the worst-designed pre-TSA airports in the US; I know they couldn't have foreseen the uptick in security but adding security lines to that airport was definitely a hack.

Aside from that, Democratic party machine politics are starting to get dismantled by a wave of pissed-off progressive and tech-savvy millennials who are realizing the biggest hurdle to progress is coming from the Democratic party... Millennials have been abandoned by all the major institutions (unions, government agencies, religions, etc) so they shouldn't be surprised that we're coming for them on both sides of the aisle.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#233

Post by frik »

dmitriid wrote: post #136
flexie wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

Not only the US. It seems the rest of the world managed to build most of their infrastructure in the 60s and 70s. Now if you look at large infrastructure projects, they are much more expensive, and proceed at a glacial pace. Except in China, of course.

This nails it. Most first world countries managed to build most of their concrete infrastructure in the 60s and 70s. Unfortunately, little since then and maintainance isn't so easy.

It's impressive what China builds - they were decades behind but times changed. A huge parts of Shanghai city were rice field until 1990. Most skyscrappers were build since 2005. And now Shanghai has probably more skyscrappers than any other city in the world. Impressive also the amount of 2 or 3 story highways and the high speed trains.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#234

Post by spac »

apaprocki wrote: post #195
Milner08 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven in both. Rome is bad, but I would still say the roads are worse in Manhattan.

The roads are mostly resurfaced on a schedule that has them resurfacing nearly every day of the year. There is just so much more abuse on Manhattan asphalt from large trucks, heavy trucks, cars, construction, etc. that any given individual point can appear run-down, but then look fresh and new as soon as it is cycled through. You don't see many 16m trucks abusing streets in Rome :) http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/mo…

You don't see many trucks abusing the streets of Rome, only in certain areas. That said, I generally actually find the pavement in Manhattan better than in Rome.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#235

Post by dmix »

kodablah wrote: post #223
briandear wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not generally like that in mug of Texas. Houston proper has some questionable roads — but that has been due to a series of mayors that are more interested in farmers markets and “pocket parks” than actually doing the dirty work of actually running a city. The state of Texas has great roads. Far better than anything you see in places like NY, NJ or other states with Byzantine labor agreements. I live in France now and…

> My point is that generalized statements about the American infrastructure aren’t generally fair since the US isn’t a monolithic organization Very true, but I'd say when talking about roads, that goes for the state level in places like Texas and even down to the metropolitan level. Where I live, there are 75 mph high quality privately-managed roads close to terrible ones.

Mexico was the same way. We drove across the country and some of the public highways were very poorly maintained but right next to it was a (very cheaply tolled) private highway that was nicer than anything Ive been on in Canada (I havent driven much in America). It was a joy to drive on a well maintained roads... the value is real.

Most people may not realize what they are missing, as a result of their local/state being crippled by incompotent public management or all powerful unions, as they don't know anything different.

Not surprised to hear that it's not the case everywhere in the more decentralized US. Competence and good laws are possible. Especially when it's in a lower tax state like Texas which shows its not merely a result of lack of access to money.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#236

Post by briandear »

smileysteve wrote: post #216
Feniks wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes. Every politician in the last 30 years got elected by promising lower taxes. Literally nobody in the US has ever asked: if taxes are cut how will it impact the budget? All people want is lower taxes.

and military spending.

Not true. US military spending as a percentage of GDP is comparable to many countries. In sheer dollars, it’s vastly more, but then so is the GDP. It isn’t like MTA money is being diverted to buy tanks.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#237

Post by dionidium »

apaprocki wrote: post #195
Milner08 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven in both. Rome is bad, but I would still say the roads are worse in Manhattan.

The roads are mostly resurfaced on a schedule that has them resurfacing nearly every day of the year. There is just so much more abuse on Manhattan asphalt from large trucks, heavy trucks, cars, construction, etc. that any given individual point can appear run-down, but then look fresh and new as soon as it is cycled through. You don't see many 16m trucks abusing streets in Rome :) http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/mo…

> There is just so much more abuse on Manhattan asphalt from large trucks, heavy trucks, cars

"Abuse" is the right word. Perhaps it's worth rethinking how much of this abuse we allow. Giant trucks parading through Manhattan at will, tearing up the pavement, endangering cyclists and pedestrians, and generally lowering quality of life for residents is a policy choice, not some natural and unchangeable fact about the world.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#238

Post by Tyrek »

apaprocki wrote: post #195
Milner08 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've driven in both. Rome is bad, but I would still say the roads are worse in Manhattan.

The roads are mostly resurfaced on a schedule that has them resurfacing nearly every day of the year. There is just so much more abuse on Manhattan asphalt from large trucks, heavy trucks, cars, construction, etc. that any given individual point can appear run-down, but then look fresh and new as soon as it is cycled through. You don't see many 16m trucks abusing streets in Rome :) http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/mo…

Resurfacing every day of the year is kind of a meaningless metric, though. If the entire resurfacing department is 1 dude, he can be resurfacing every day of the year and only get a (couple?) streets done. The argument there is that the department isn't large enough, which fundamentally impacts the availability of good roads.

Trucks are another thing entirely, and I'd be delighted for them to be both taxed at a higher rate for road wear & tear, and to be somehow limited. But that's road design, and that's not going to be solved for a long time.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#239

Post by francisofascii »

Feniks wrote: post #214
flexie wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

Taxes. Every politician in the last 30 years got elected by promising lower taxes. Literally nobody in the US has ever asked: if taxes are cut how will it impact the budget? All people want is lower taxes.

I would agree. The Federal gas tax was not raised since 1993. People love the idea of new transit systems and infrastructure but will freak out if gas prices go up a few cents.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#240

Post by bob_theslob646 »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #139
rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

In New York we have a public service union for virtually every public employee. Politicians buy the votes and political support of these unions (and their union members). This means that the average cop, transit worker, prison guard, and members of most other public service unions often make well over $100,000 a year salary (plus massive benefits) with many making upwards of $200,000 a year (with some making far more…

How the heck is this even possible? 200k a year to be a cop? Talk about hitting the lottery.. How is this even allowed?

Is the crime rate even that high? Isn't Nassau County one of the richest county's in the United States?

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