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Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

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Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#21
The gig economy is always going to be more volatile than full-time work. This is why grocery stores had not already hired full time drivers to deliver groceries, and why there is demand for Instacart.

It's the same with Uber. During a rainy day rush-hour there are rarely any medallion cabs available, so Uber created a way to get transportation on those days (surge pricing) that incentiveizes drivers to work during those times.

So normal (expected) peaks and troughs in utilization result in a price signal that reflects demand on a much more granular time scale than simply a full time or part time worker with a schedule planned months in advance.

There are two ways to solve this, and Instacart and Uber are both following the approach that is more economically sound -- pass the actual price signals to would-be workers, so that they can self-select in an optimizing way.

Nearly ever Uber driver I talk to is very pleased to be able to make the money on his/her terms, even if it's not great money, or if it's not as good as it used to be.

If we create an old-fashioned, industrial-era labor market overlay for the gig economy, all we'll accomplish is taking away some good employment options for those who need them most.

All of the "perks" of the industrial-era labor movement are geared at a specific labor/employer dynamic. Uber and Instacart are shifting that dynamic and doing the work of matching supply and demand to make work available that was not available before.

We must adjust our view of what a "good" and "fair" job is, when we consider that without the matching mechanism these jobs would not exist. Let's not kill them off just because someone exploited a loophole about ordering massive size cases of water.

Ultimately I think the ideal version of "uber for everything" is a worker-owned cooperative, but until VC gets tired of helping to prove out the model, such cooperatives are at a disadvantage. That is a temporary disadvantage. Let's not hamstring the cooperatives before they can even launch!

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#22
post #19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call me crazy, but when I use one of these services, I expect the service to be reflected in the price.

While that would be ideal, I do think it’s at least slightly crazy to truly expect that people delivering food are not somewhat depending on tips to make it work. That’s just how it goes in the real world!

It doesn't have to go that way if we (all of us, customers and employees alike) refuse to accept that it should go that way.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#23
post #14

I recently ordered from DoorDash, a similar service. The app gave me a price for the order and then had a line item called “Dasher Tip” and asked me how much I wanted to put down. I put in $20. Later when the woman arrived with the food, we stopped to talk for a minute. She was a little younger than my mom, and said she had just started working for the service after her husband died. She asked me if she could ask me…

Your story is a great reminder to why tipping is pointless (among many other reasons, such as [1]) If you do decide to tip, you should hand the person you want to have the money cash -- that's the only way you can be for sure they're gonna get it. [1] http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/articles/27/

That would however mean the delivery person will believe you intend to tip zero until you actually do. Not discussing whether it is right or not, but I assume that could affect the received service.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#25
post #20

What I don't understand is if the pay or working conditions are so bad, why don't people just go find a new job? If they can't get anyone to do the job, they will be forced to pay more or fix the conditions. If they have a terrible reputation, nobody will want to work for them. It's simple supply and demand.

It boggles me that anyone believes this. It's called leverage. Not everyone has equal ability, nor equal ability to change jobs for a variety of reasons.

[deleted]

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#26

Back in the old days, when we actually manufactured clothing in this country, there was this concept of "piece work". You weren't paid by the hour, but instead by your work output. E.g. if you were performing some sewing step on a blouse, such as adding buttons, you might be paid $0.25 per blouse for that work step. Of course employers tried to cheat, by setting the per-piece rate very low. You had to process many pi…

It’s precisely BECAUSE the law hasn’t caught up that most of these exist the way that they do at all. Instacart, Postmates, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, etc. all make profit on the gap between what they pay and what the regulated equivalent pays. Their big competitive advantage is just lower costs by completely ignoring the law. We talk about “innovation” but then these services mostly operate on not paying employees, insuran…

if the government really care of it's citizen, they should do it directly, by providing low cost/free basic necessity or basic income, etc. This way their citizen is not "forced" to work with these company you deemed "exploitative"

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#27

Is this corporate greed or is the value of unskilled labor quickly approaching zero?

I think the value of unskilled, marginal time spent is effectively zero at times where the utilization is approaching zero.

What I think this demonstrates is that the issue is very uneven demand. An analogy might be the electric company, which at some points of the day is literally seeing net negative demand in areas with enough renewable generation. They have power plants that can run any time, though, whereas gig workers cannot always pick and choose when they work.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#28

What I don't understand is if the pay or working conditions are so bad, why don't people just go find a new job? If they can't get anyone to do the job, they will be forced to pay more or fix the conditions. If they have a terrible reputation, nobody will want to work for them. It's simple supply and demand.

Because finding a low skill job is pretty hard. Not everyone has the luxury of choice.

Re: Some Instacart workers to strike over pay that can be as low as $1 per hour

#30
This isn't innovation, it is exploitation. Where are the state attorneys' general on this? Injured hauling a 600-lb order of sugar and cooking oil -- it's absurd the company does not carry workers' comp insurance for this. In the real world not carrying workers' comp insurance is very serious business.

This is going to go like Napster, we'll find a better way when it is gone.

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