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Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

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Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#101

Unfortunately I don't see a way this can be avoided.There has never been a weapon humanity imagined, designed, and built that it has not used. AI will be no different. A ban would be impossible to implement. What exactly would you ban? AI? Drones? facial recognition? Once you have a certain level of capability in these technologies, weaponising these things is the easy part.

I stand by my right to a robot army as self-defense in the mean time while I work on achieving the singularity in order to defeat skynet.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#102

It's like WWI all over again. In WWI, people went happily off to war thinking it's going to be nice and heroic and adventurous like the good old days and they all get slaughtered in a pathetic pointless way in a blink of an eye by newly developed automated war machinery. The first AI War is going to be a really brutal wakeup call. The part in sci-fi where anyone actually has to aim to kill an enemy was a big romantic…

"Heroic" and "adventurous" OK, but- "nice"? I can't believe anyone ever thought that going to war -to kill and risk getting killed- could be "nice", except perhaps for murderous psychopaths.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#103
post #55

The message of this film feels extremely confused - probably because it's trying to single-mindedly push an agenda rather then explore the problem space. In a world where apparently drone-swarms are this cheap...what, no one ever developed counter-drones? It's the reason grey goo isn't a realistic scenario for nanotechnology: the goo has to replicate, whereas all the counter-goo has to do is kill it. Same issue: a wo…

>> In a world where apparently drone-swarms are this cheap...what, no one ever developed counter-drones?

Well, in a world where developing assault rifles is actually rather cheap, nobody has really developed any convincing countermeasures. Infantry still gets killed if you shoot them with an AK-47, etc.

So there can be weapons without countermeasures. The point of the video is that the possibility exists to develop the weapon to begin with - and that is already concerning enough.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#104
post #69
post #55

The message of this film feels extremely confused - probably because it's trying to single-mindedly push an agenda rather then explore the problem space. In a world where apparently drone-swarms are this cheap...what, no one ever developed counter-drones? It's the reason grey goo isn't a realistic scenario for nanotechnology: the goo has to replicate, whereas all the counter-goo has to do is kill it. Same issue: a wo…

Counter-goo also has to self-replicate, or otherwise be available in huge quantities. The only currently existing self-replicating nanotech is called “life”, and plenty of that has been getting in our way for as long as there has been an us to get in the way of. Unless you count bootstraping on existing life, I have it on good authority (someone with a PhD in material science from Cambridge) that nobody knows how to…

That's a good point- even if countermeasures can be developed, there's nothing stopping development of anti-counter-measures, and so on.

The trick is to not take the first step down that rabbit hole otherwise we will forever be chasing our tail and we'll never feel secure again.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#105
In a world of fighter-jets, satellites, and nukes, under the right circumstances this is a development which could cut both ways.

From Wikipedia: "Quigley concludes that the characteristics of weapons are the main predictor of democracy.[0] Democracy tends to emerge only when the best weapons available are easy for individuals to buy and use."

[0] http://www.carrollquigley.net/pdf/Weapons%20Systems%20and%20...

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#106

Unfortunately I don't see a way this can be avoided.There has never been a weapon humanity imagined, designed, and built that it has not used. AI will be no different. A ban would be impossible to implement. What exactly would you ban? AI? Drones? facial recognition? Once you have a certain level of capability in these technologies, weaponising these things is the easy part.

There's only ever been two nuclear strikes however. Nations do have nuclear arsenals but have, so far, not been stupid enough to use them. Chemical and biological weapons are also largely banned from use.

I'm not saying that we can rest assured that we won't all end up as mushroom cloud dust someday in the maybe not distant future. But attempts to curtail the use of really dangerous weapons have paid off in the past. There's no reason why they wouldn't in this case also.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#107
post #39

I, too, look forward to season 4 of Black Mirror.

Interestingly, this was almost the exact plot to the the latest season finale.

I've observed elsewhere that the reason this is different is also the reason they couldn't use footage from "Hated In The Nation" (the Black Mirror episode you're thinking of)

Hated In The Nation hypothesises that a lone nutter repurposes existing non-lethal technology to kill people. No explosives, just drill your way into the brain through the ear because the robots are replacements for flying insects.

A law saying "Don't make killer robots" is useless in the Black Mirror scenario, nobody made killer robots except the lone nutjob they're already hunting for murder. So for this campaign it's an unhelpful message, it suggests their campaign would be futile.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#108
post #55

The message of this film feels extremely confused - probably because it's trying to single-mindedly push an agenda rather then explore the problem space. In a world where apparently drone-swarms are this cheap...what, no one ever developed counter-drones? It's the reason grey goo isn't a realistic scenario for nanotechnology: the goo has to replicate, whereas all the counter-goo has to do is kill it. Same issue: a wo…

I don't think "people will invent countermeasures" is a particularly good argument. We have countermeasures against chemical weapons - but not everyone has them all the time. We would still be better off if we hadn't opened that pandora's box. For an eight minute video, it does a decent job of exploring the consequences of a weapon that can kill remotely, with minimal collateral damage, and with no supervision. They…

> We would still be better off if we hadn't opened that pandora's box.

I don't think that's a reasonable assumption to make. I have no evidence either way, but I can easily instantly theorize that lots of medical advancements might have come from the same people that got their feet wet in chemical weapon technology, in later stages of their careers/life.

Again, I don't really have an opinion, and haven't really thought it through - I'm just saying your blanket statement needs a citation.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#109
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can make it considered unacceptable and against international law. Like chemical weapons. Which still happen, but not as much as they would if the U.S were, say, planning on using them all over the place, doing heavy R&D into them, and selling them to other people. Like, you know, robot kill bots.

Most of the reason chemical weapons don't get used is because they're not very effective. It's hard to disperse them on the battlefield, changing weather has a nasty habit of blowing the stuff back onto your own troops, and protective gear is cheap enough to equip everyone in an army. I'm pretty sure that everyone was willing to ban them internationally not just because they're horrible but also because they're not v…

>> Most of the reason chemical weapons don't get used is because they're not very effective.

Against a modern military equipped and prepared to withstand them, perhaps. Against a civilian population or a less well-funded force, not so much. This is doubly the case when the attacker is a non-state agent (like a terrorist). Remember for instance the Sarin gas attack in the Tokyo metro by the Shinning Path [1]. An air force bombing a major city with chemical weapons would also cause vast casualties.

I think what you're trying to say is that chemical weapons are primarily designed to be terrifying with lethality considerations coming next. However, you could argue the same about nuclear weapons. After all, the attacks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not acutally meant to wipe the Japanese apart, only to scare them into submission. And nuclear deterrence works on the principle that an enemy won't dare attack a nuclear power.

In general, you could think of all weapons ever as aimed primarily at the morale of the enemy rather than their life and that thought may have some merit. After all, an army that breaks and runs is beaten faster and with fewer losses to the other side than one that fights to the last [2].

However, the important point to keep in mind is that weapons, even when they're primarily designed to be terrifying, are designed to be terrifying in the manner they kill. So I think you'll find that most people would agree that chemical weapons should be banned because they kill in a horrible manner, not relative to the number of casualties they may or may not inflict.

I do think you underestimate their potency btw.

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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway_sarin_attack

[2] Cough cough. In war games, certainly.

Re: Slaughterbots: Stop Autonomous Weapons [video]

#110
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-goo also has to self-replicate, or otherwise be available in huge quantities. The only currently existing self-replicating nanotech is called “life”, and plenty of that has been getting in our way for as long as there has been an us to get in the way of. Unless you count bootstraping on existing life, I have it on good authority (someone with a PhD in material science from Cambridge) that nobody knows how to…

That's a good point- even if countermeasures can be developed, there's nothing stopping development of anti-counter-measures, and so on. The trick is to not take the first step down that rabbit hole otherwise we will forever be chasing our tail and we'll never feel secure again.

Anyone can take the first step. I’d prefer some sneaky billionaire builds consumer products with surprising features, like Tesla cars being safe from chemical weapons or hybrid VR-AR goggles that just coincidentally make it impossible to be permanently blinded by laser weapons.
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