Has he taken a look at the Android appstore?
DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
61–70 of 77 posts
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
A score of -4 is actually -5 karma points (since everything starts at 1 point). Here's a tip though - you can't cash it in for prizes, don't worry about it.
And 1 point is actually zero. Now I'm down to 4, so 15 minus "5" plus 2 = 4 in hackernews math? For the record, I don't care about karma points, I care about whether or not the system works correctly.
Looking at how your subsequent comments are rated nobody's going to believe in this..
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. You've got to have your…
> Lua, JavaScript I'm told several of the top 10 games on the store use Lua (with permission, presumably). And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system.
The language rule was relaxed so you could use embedded languages so long as you couldn't expose them to the end user. Javascript must be executed using Mobile Safari.
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. You've got to have your…
> Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Sturgeon's Law puts the burden of proof on anybody who doesn't think it would prevent more crap apps. (Crapps?) And practically speaking, I can't imagine allowing Flash-to-iOS apps not resulting in a deluge of…
Sounds like an argument from ignorance. Nobody has proven the language restrictions don't decrease the number of crap apps, there for it's proven they do? WTF.
I'm not the one making the stupid claim (that the language restrictions reduce crap apps). The burden of proof lies with the claimant in this case.
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. You've got to have your…
> Lua, JavaScript I'm told several of the top 10 games on the store use Lua (with permission, presumably). And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system.
And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system.
Yes and no. In native applications, you can use JS, however its very limited; 10MB ram max, combined with 10s execution time before your code gets killed.
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#66The headline refers to an 8 minute segment in a 45 minute chat from DHH.
I've only watched part of the talk so far, but it is a very persuasive piece of advocacy for Ruby. DHH is a smart guy, but he seems to have had relatively light range of language experience prior to discovering Ruby.
One of his examples is the ability to use 'unless'. Big deal, this is an ugly and non-intuitive (for me) perlism. I appreciate others may like it though. Despite this, I was still motivated to pull down my copy of 'pickaxe' and leaf through it.
Keep in mind though, he's arguing just one perspective. Personally, the Cocoa/UIKit apis on iOS 4.0 are incredible, and have reawoken my desire and motivation to 'just code'. Objective-C rocks, because you can write nice tight C code, and yet still have pretty wide-ranging abilities to pass objects around, easily make a view into a control immediately giving you all the extra stuff from responders/controls.
There may indeed be a bunch of shit in the App store, but it has everything to do with crappy programmers writing crappy software, and Apple's lax enforcement of UX standards, rather than any enforced choice of programming language. Does he really think that programmers write crappy programs because Objective-C is hard?
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. You've got to have your…
> Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Sturgeon's Law puts the burden of proof on anybody who doesn't think it would prevent more crap apps. (Crapps?) And practically speaking, I can't imagine allowing Flash-to-iOS apps not resulting in a deluge of…
Not true. You've always been able to use JavaScript, and you can use pretty much any other language provided you get approval from Apple and don't use it to build the bulk of your app.
So I can use any language I want as long as I hardly use it at all and get some vague "approval" for my incredibly limited use. Big whoop. That's pretty much the same as not being allowed to use any other language. Much closer to banned than allowed.
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't need to hypothesize an ulterior motive, they told you what it was straight out during the "It Must Be Objective-C" kurfuffle. It is to maintain control over the platform and ensure that as they update the platform the apps can easily track it because they are all on the same basic framework. That they later loosened this restriction doesn't really change the point. I hate to call that "ulterior" though, bec…
Also, cross compiled/deployed apps means: - Apps won't use iPhone features not present on other phones - Apps will be available on other phones, thus making iPhones less attractives (that card can only be played while iPhones have this incredible momentum) - They might be ugly, targetting the lowest denominator In the long run it's stupid idea (IMHO), but it let's them milk the iPhone current gigantic success. It's n…
Your first claim is false (apps might do that or they might not, and either choice is possible regardless of cross-compilation) and the third is a statement of mere possibility, which is uninteresting (Objective-C apps might be ugly and target the LCD as well — the iPhone has proved this). Only the second is true, and that reason is simply a long-winded way to say "ulterior motive of lock-in."
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#69Who cares about the percentage of shit in the app store? It's not like you have to sift through all the apps manually. Think about all the web pages on the internet. Does the web have a better batting average than the app store? Does it matter? The only pragmatic argument against Apple's app store policies (IMO), is that companies cannot be confident enough to invest heavily in an application that has yet to be appro…
> Think about all the web pages on the internet. Does the web have a better batting average than the app store? That's bullshit ... main difference is that the Internet has multiple choices for whatever you want and real competition in a Darwinistic sense. That argument would be valid if Apple wouldn't reject apps that "duplicate" their own functionality ... like Google Voice. When Apple stops doing that, then you mi…
It's too late for me to edit my original post, but I should have written this line:
> The only pragmatic argument against Apple's app store policies
Like this:
> The only pragmatic argument against Apple's app store policies with respect to average app quality
I'm only talking about average app quality here, and whether we can conclude anything about Apple's store policies affecting app quality. I would like to see evidence that a more open policy would yield higher quality apps.
Also: I am not arguing that the web is the same as Apple's app store except insomuch as general users needn't care about the average unit's quality. My appreciation for a single well designed app is not impacted by 100 terrible apps that I will never encounter.
> people rely on their search engine or on their friends recommendations (first by email, now by Facebook/Twitter), not on some central authority.
This applies to the app store as well as to the web. I use email and Facebook and Twitter to get recommendations for apps (whether for Android or the iPhone). I don't rely on Apple to tell me what app to use.
Re: DHH: Appstore is a warehouse of shit
#70Who cares about the percentage of shit in the app store? It's not like you have to sift through all the apps manually. Think about all the web pages on the internet. Does the web have a better batting average than the app store? Does it matter? The only pragmatic argument against Apple's app store policies (IMO), is that companies cannot be confident enough to invest heavily in an application that has yet to be appro…
> Think about all the web pages on the internet. Does the web have a better batting average than the app store? Does it matter? This. The fact that Android allows you to install over HTTP is a huge win as it lets you leverage this great distributed fault-tolerant network of computors that is commonly called the Web. Pagerank is a way, way better way to determine app quality than App Store or Market reviews.
There's nothing stopping a developer from hosting a web page for his app, which would be page-ranked. And there's nothing stopping me from making an app choice based on evidence other than the in-store reviews. Apps are linked to and discussed and reviewed in all sorts of places all over the web. It works like a charm.
I would love to see side-loading become available for the iPhone, but, knowing Apple, I don't expect it and I don't think Apple should be obliged to provide it.