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Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

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Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#91
post #57

I have not read the book the article references. However, in reference to what Mr. Hacker and Ms. Dreifus call the "immorality" of using adjunct professors, the article's author does not address the fact that there are potentially very good reasons why the use of adjuncts is increasing. In engineering, for example, adjunct professors may come from industry and provide students with perspective and experience full-tim…

Adjunct professors != adjunct instructors.

VERY important distinction.

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#92
I found the title of this article quite ironic because that's exactly what happened to me in college. I was employed by the school and benefited more than the regular students. I was able to get a job on campus as a Sys admin and that's where most of my education came from. I really wish the opportunity I had was offered to more students on campus. Working 40hrs and going to school more than half time (9 hours or so) was a hard but the experience really put me ahead when I was applying for work. I already had 5 years of experience when I graduated and got the first job I applied for when I decided to leave the school.

I guess my point is, if you go to a school try to find a decent job on campus (not something useless like working as a library clerk if you want to be a programmer). Most universities will pay for your school if you work for them full time.

I still ended up racking some student debt ( I didn't work full time for the first 2 years which got expensive) but hopefully I'll have that gone soon. Not so lucky for my wife, she's earning a masters in library science right now and we are looking at over 50K total for her education. I'll probably have to get a new job when she graduates to cover the increased expense. 50K is ridiculous, and they won't give you 30 years to pay that off anymore.

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#93
It's ironic the article mentions Stanford, then describes university presidents as not having "done anything memorable, apart perhaps from firing a popular athletic coach." The president of Stanford is John Hennessy, a founder of MIPS and a board member of Google and Cisco among others.

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#95
post #61

All of this outrage just stems from a confusion over the point of private research universities. The Purpose of Harvard is Not to Educate People: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2008/05/29/... State universities, yes, those are supposed to educate people. But not Ivy League schools. Their purpose is to produce new knowledge. The authors of the OP article then conflate two discussions: (1) Should priv…

Um, really ignorant question here, but what book on reasoning can I read to be able to see through arguments and debates like you just did? I want to learn about empirical and normative questions, etc.

Start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#96
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/me watches the comment thread change over time as those who are more motivated by tribal allegiances start to outweigh those who appreciate a fair joke

I appreciate the well placed joke now and again. "Punching hippies" was funny because its truthy enough to be relevant, and relevant enough to be in the thread. HN goes through a phase every now and again where I think it takes itself a little too seriously. Its for important discussions unlike that red-place with the silly alien (pretentious snorteling and huffing). All attempts at humor are immediately voted down.…

> HN goes through a phase every now and again where I think it takes itself a little too seriously.

hahaha. yes, every now and then. hahahahahahahaha

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eight ? Or Eighty? Eight seems terribly small! edit: I just read on and you mention her new salary is $35K and it's a huge improvement but I find it still hard to believe that someone would actually go to work 15 hours per day for a $8K pay per year. That works out to be substantially less than minimum wage.

I looked into teaching math at a California community college and the pay was just under $2000 per course. A course was either 3 or 4 credits. $8K for 15 credit-hours worth of teaching in Indiana sounds about right. When my sister was an adjunct faculty at a big state school she made $17K a year.

Wow. I had no idea pays were this low. How do you live? Is the job really that great? Why put up with it? I started making 50K a year when I first graduated from college and I still complained it was too low after a year there. And now I think that making $100K a year is still too low. You need to choose a different career. Else no point in complaining.

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#98
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See another article currently on the front page: Realtime Linux: academia v. reality http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/397422/27eef125e03b8a2d/ "I actually took the time to spend a day at a university where I could gain access to IEEE papers without wasting my private money. I picked out twenty recent realtime related papers and did a quick survey. Twelve of the papers were a rehash of well-known and well-researched topi…

That's funny. If you took a look at startups, you'd find that 99% of them are me-too crap. Badly designed websites for Yet Another Social Networking Gimmick, bad mobile apps, outlandish bad business ideas, etc. 1% of them ever truly go anywhere. 0.1% of them change the world. My point is that anytime you randomly sample a field of work of any kind, you're going to get an exponential distribution of quality with a few…

Sturgeon's Law: Applicable Again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeons_Law

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#99
To be honest I'm glad that professors are doing more research and instructors are more pure instructors. The typical professor has 4 jobs: Researcher, Fundraiser, Teacher and Evaluator. They all have a conflict of interest with each other in some way and they'll all steal your shower focus. If they were all separated, universities could provide much better services in each job category. I remember Knuth saying something along the lines of "I retired so I can actually focus on research and attend less meetings". Students won't have to deal with the scheduling nightmare that is final exams because professors are too valuable to provide flexible (scheduling wise) examination services. Things like back to back finals or having them 3 days after the 'get all of your large projects in' end of classes rush don't have to happen anymore! People who want to interact with professors can come on as undergrad research assistants/apprentices and actually learn some research vs. some extension of high school. Professors wouldn't have to deal with something alot of them aren't that good at and most dread and actually get the grants they need!

Re: Colleges Serve the People Who Work There, Not the Students

#100
post #22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair point, but he's probably focusing on the arts and soft sciences because those degrees are the most overpriced for the value they deliver. To put it another way, an MIT grad with an engineering degree is going to be much better off career-wise than a Harvard grad who majored in gender studies.

The long term studies of technical degrees vs 'soft science' hasn't been looked at in depth on a national scale with relation to earnings and salary. These studies are just beginning. From AACRO: after 10 years the earning potential for an engineering degree drops below someone with an English degree. Technical degrees are way more valuable out of the gate while soft science take time to develop. To put it into other…

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