151–160 of 163 posts
In general I am very concerned about what is considered cold. Is this just unheated? Depending on the time of year the relative temperature of unheated has a broad range where I live. I’d be a lot more comfortable if this set a tight bound on the water temp. If it did and I missed it sorry.
10 degrees C was used as "cold" in this study, as per the article.
We did this in our entire house for about 6 months once when our water heater broke and we couldn't afford to get it fixed quickly. UPSIDES: We nearly halved our water bill as all of us (kids and parents) took far shorter showers because it was so cold. This also meant we had to clean the shower much less often. I would also be more awake and alert in the morning after a cold rinse. DOWNSIDES: I noticed I was getting…
Do you think you were standing in the shower incredible tensed up to combat the inevitable cold? I feel like just reading about a cold shower gets me in that mode.
But I think more than that - I like the blast of hot water essentially massaging the back of my neck and shoulders. I think the heat had a significant effect on loosening up the muscles and knots, and increasing flexibility and neck movement. The cold showers simply did nothing, and me tensing my body to meet the cold shock didn't help any.
I find that I do a bit of both these days - have a hot shower first and do neck stretches in the shower, then turn the water to cold just before I hop out.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
While it is possible that it is more than a placebo, note that nothing you wrote is inconsistent with a placebo effect. If it works for you, great. Doesn't matter if it's a placebo effect or not in that case.
Not being sick after a year is a measurable change, that is unlikely to be placebo. The change is real, even if it would be caused by something else. But, my primary point was meant to be that the results of the study don't imply placebo, through many comments here throw it around a lot. (I am not sure what kind of effect they would want to see through.) They do imply that effects are bound to be very small.
Is it? The entire point of a placebo is that it does lead to measurable change that can be very significant.
> The change is real, even if it would be caused by something else.
... such as a placebo effect. Placebo can lead to real, significant change. To the extent that there has been serious discussion about harnessing the placebo effect (the primary issue being the ethics of lying to a patient).
> But, my primary point was meant to be that the results of the study don't imply placebo, through many comments here throw it around a lot. (I am not sure what kind of effect they would want to see through.)
The study doesn't imply placebo, but the issue is whether or not it rules it out. Part of the problem here is that designing a good placebo for cold showers is not straightforward. You could try to convince people of the positive health benefits of cold showers and try to convince a different group of the positive health benefits of a pill, but you'd still then not have blinded study, and you'd have a hard time demonstrating that any difference in effect isn't simply down to people finding the cold showers more convincing.
Note that this is not saying you shouldn't do cold showers if it works for you. If it works for you, it doesn't matter if it's a placebo effect or not. The issue of whether or not it is a placebo is more about mechanism. In other words: Is it actually something about the showers? Or is it something about the way you were convinced to think the showers had an effect? It matters because it may affect how this treatment works for others, and how consistently it works, and because a placebo mediated effect can change over time as cultural expectations change (e.g. placebo effect of sugar pills have gone up as people have become accustomed to using pills to solve medical problems).
But if the effect is there for you, that ought to be secondary to you. If it works without causing any harm, then awesome.
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I laughed at this - and totally understand where you're coming from. However. For me, I have known people who weather the cold very well - unlike you and I. They'll go for a swim in a cold lake and enjoy it. Generally, I hate the cold. Even a mild cold is NOPE. My hands especially, get cold very easily. But this is what I saw when I looked up the method: > If you are new to cold exposure, just end your warm shower wi…
No. I don't want it, don't need it, not interested. Or are you going be the one to to pay the medical and rehab costs for my next back injury? Are you going to endure the excruciating pain and sleepless nights? Are you going to compensate me for the additional costs I'll bear for the rest of my life due to being unable to lift or carry as much or as far as I once could? Or for a year's worth of lost opportunities (pr…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I laughed at this - and totally understand where you're coming from. However. For me, I have known people who weather the cold very well - unlike you and I. They'll go for a swim in a cold lake and enjoy it. Generally, I hate the cold. Even a mild cold is NOPE. My hands especially, get cold very easily. But this is what I saw when I looked up the method: > If you are new to cold exposure, just end your warm shower wi…
No. I don't want it, don't need it, not interested. Or are you going be the one to to pay the medical and rehab costs for my next back injury? Are you going to endure the excruciating pain and sleepless nights? Are you going to compensate me for the additional costs I'll bear for the rest of my life due to being unable to lift or carry as much or as far as I once could? Or for a year's worth of lost opportunities (pr…
Not at all what I was getting at. You've clearly had a bad experience and are averse to further attempts. I get that. And it only adds to my own hesitations surrounding it. If you thought I was trying to dictate what you should do - i misspoke.
What was worthwhile to me, was that I don't need to just hop into a tub of ice to try it. I can take steps to ease my way into it. I can start with warmer water, expose less of my body, etc. I can work with baby steps. Whats kept me from trying it at all was the notion i needed to do it "all-in".
Showering in cold water also might keep the skin pores closed causing less absorption of whatever may be in the municipal water (fluoride, traces of pesticides, hormones from birth control etc).
Because of the study design, there's no control group that would account for placebo. The placebo effect in several meta-analyses (Beecher, Haas) showed an effect in studies of around 30%. Coincidentally, people participating in this study felt less sick when talking a hot-cold shower by ~30%. Without being able to discount placebo, I am highly suspect of the results of this study.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. I don't want it, don't need it, not interested. Or are you going be the one to to pay the medical and rehab costs for my next back injury? Are you going to endure the excruciating pain and sleepless nights? Are you going to compensate me for the additional costs I'll bear for the rest of my life due to being unable to lift or carry as much or as far as I once could? Or for a year's worth of lost opportunities (pr…
You are really aggressive
TLDR; 3000 participants study that asked them to do cold showers for 30-90 seconds each day for 1 month. Main difference shown was ~30% reduction in sick days they took. On a side note, has anyone here tried wim hof method?
I actually went and met Wim. I took one of his seminars. He had us all go outside into a pool of ice together for about ~1 minute with all of us chanting who let the dogs out while we froze. I walked out completely red because it was the coldest thing I'd ever done. At that point I was doing cold showers for about a year and a half. I am a very physical person and his method was the first one to put my mind into a me…
Also: Freediving is amazing for forcing a meditative state.