This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach • Hacker News Board

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#71

Post by mcritz » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 10:39 PM UTC

feverishaaron wrote: post #63

yalurker wrote: post #13

Sigh, another blogger trotting out the tired, false cliche that college is useless. From the article: "Were you smarter at 21 post college than your Dad was at 21? And whatever the difference, was it worth the $50k-$200k he paid to get you it?" Yes. Yes I was smarter. And I didn't pay 200k because I went to a state school. I graduated a wholly different person with a completely different world-view and a ton of appli…

I don't see him knocking schooling. Rather, he is criticizing seeking schooling for the sake of schooling . And he has a valid point. There is very little economic benefit, outside of research and some professional fields, to pursue additional degrees.

He did knock Management Degrees… with good reason.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#72

Post by mkr-hn » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 10:41 PM UTC

The_Igor wrote: post #40

yalurker wrote: post #13

Sigh, another blogger trotting out the tired, false cliche that college is useless. From the article: "Were you smarter at 21 post college than your Dad was at 21? And whatever the difference, was it worth the $50k-$200k he paid to get you it?" Yes. Yes I was smarter. And I didn't pay 200k because I went to a state school. I graduated a wholly different person with a completely different world-view and a ton of appli…

I went to school for one reason and one reason only because I knew I had to. I picked Psychology as my degree because, at that time, this was the only thing I could imagine studding for 4 years. I worked in IT industry before I started school, while going to school and after graduation. Most of my techy friends discouraged my degree every step of the way. 'Why the hell do you need it? Bill gates never even finished'…

This is what I got out of my lottery-funded education. I went in to get a degree in networking (with a specialization in Linux administration), and ended up getting the most out of the liberal arts stuff.

Things I got out of it:

Got comfortable with the command line

Overcame a lifetime of math phobia (I was content with being math-illiterate before I knew its value)

Learned how to write coherent bodies of text

Got a primer in economics that helped me understand the chaos in 2008

---

I think too many people go straight to "you don't need college" rather than considering what kind of college they would get the most out of. Anyone would do well to have a simple AAS from a cheap/free technical college. Not everyone needs a PHD or degree from a top-rated institution.

If nothing else, everyone should get a basic degree even if they don't have any grand aspirations. It gives you tools to live a better life with whatever you do achieve.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#73

Post by invisible » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 10:46 PM UTC

While there are people like Scott, I think that there are also many people that don't obey their parents advice to find a high-paying job. There are many people that go out and take loans that they might default on to peruse a dream. (I started my first business at 19 and had no guidance either way.)

I think, however, that there is a problem in school (even high school) that pushes students towards wanting to start off making decent money with no input as if they are entitled right off the bat. Scott says he expects his political science degree to entitle him to $75,000/year (more or less). I bet all of his teachers nursed him along with, "These are skills to get a high-paying job..." They did that crap through most of my normal HS and college.

So the question to ask yourself is what encouraged you to start a business? What made you take a risk on yourself? For me, it was oddly enough teachers at a college vocational school during HS that didn't express "finding a dream job" but rather learning for the betterment of oneself. We were encouraged to do good work and show off that work rather than grind our way through busywork and exams into a high paying job.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#74

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:11 PM UTC

The_Igor wrote: post #40

yalurker wrote: post #13

Sigh, another blogger trotting out the tired, false cliche that college is useless. From the article: "Were you smarter at 21 post college than your Dad was at 21? And whatever the difference, was it worth the $50k-$200k he paid to get you it?" Yes. Yes I was smarter. And I didn't pay 200k because I went to a state school. I graduated a wholly different person with a completely different world-view and a ton of appli…

I went to school for one reason and one reason only because I knew I had to. I picked Psychology as my degree because, at that time, this was the only thing I could imagine studding for 4 years. I worked in IT industry before I started school, while going to school and after graduation. Most of my techy friends discouraged my degree every step of the way. 'Why the hell do you need it? Bill gates never even finished'…

[deleted]

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#75

Post by run4yourlives » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:21 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #15

starkfist wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Greatest Generation" refers to the parents of the baby boomers.

The "Greatest Generation" who guaranteed themselves the "Greatest Retirement" package. In the fairy tale, all the goods and services they consume will come from the magic money tree that the government fertilized somewhere with all the money they paid into social security. Back in reality land, a smaller population of heavily taxed and badly paid members of the Gen X and Gen Y cohort will have to change grandma's bed…

Sorry, are you saying the generation that created the baby boomers didn't adequately provide a large enough work base for the social programs they wanted to access?

They call the offspring generation the boomers after all. The "greatest" did a perfect job in understanding what they were doing in that respect.

Their children, however, are the ones who use their own strength to ensure lucrative benefit programs for themselves on the backs of their offspring in the Gen X/Y bracket.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#76

Post by philwelch » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:28 PM UTC

starkfist wrote: post #4

noelchurchill wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by greatest generation you mean baby boomers. The article doesn't OP doesn't refer to them as the greatest generation. And by given way, I think you mean enabled, because the OP is making the point that Scotts parents have paid his whole way and still pay for him while he declines job offers. I have issue with calling the baby boomers the greatest generation. They've saddled this country with an unimaginable…

"The Greatest Generation" refers to the parents of the baby boomers.

So named because if it wasn't for them we'd all be speaking German or Japanese right now. Or, depending upon your ethnic status, exterminated, or used for bayonet practice.

My dad (who personally is as conservative as they come, though with fond memories of FDR) is of the tail end of this generation--he enlisted just in time to go to Okinawa. He always tells me people living today don't fully understand what WWII was really like. It wasn't like Vietnam or Iraq where everyone at home carries on as normal while the troops are on the front lines--everyone was in the war effort, whether it's boys too young to enlist working in shipyards churning out a ship every day or two, or old men in Bend, Oregon meeting at the bar and planning how to defend the town in case the Japanese landed, to the rationing. And that's America--not Britain where they had bombs and rockets raining on their heads, and where the success or failure of the RAF could dictate whether your family survived the night. Total war means the entire population is involved, and WWII was the last total war the English speaking world ever fought. Keeping all of that in mind, I'm willing to forgive a lot from the WWII generation.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#77

Post by watmough » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:46 PM UTC

Can anyone point me to the related post from a few weeks back, that concerned the change in the workforce from 'safe' corporate jobs to a more 'free-agent' based workforce?

Concerning the article, my wife pointed out that when she graduated with a Liberal Arts degree and started working as a tech-writer back in 2000, her starting salary was $42,000. A considerable more useful sum than $40k would be today.

The guy in the article seems pretty stupid not to have taken the $40k, seeing as he seems to have no other plan whatsoever. One revealing thing is his comment about his cell bill. You can be sure his parents are also paying for the house, for food, supplying a vehicle, paying insurance, buying him clothes, medical insurance.

My verdict: he's a sheltered little corporate would-be drone, with zero actual knowledge of the world.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#78

Post by jquery » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:47 PM UTC

mquander wrote: post #33

rufius wrote: post #20

So the writing in this is atrocious. There's no clear line of thought. I got 5 paragraphs in and could not figure out just what the hell the author was trying to tell me. LEARN TO WRITE.

What a shame that nobody has posted a pithy one-line summary for you. My big condolences. I spent three minutes skimming this article and it's perfectly clear what the author's thesis is; that the millennial generation has been raised to expect a breed of safe, corporate job in their favorite fields which just don't exist in the quantity that young adults wish they did. He suggests that they had better relax their st…

> Learn to fucking read.

Is that necessary?

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#79

Post by philwelch » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:47 PM UTC

makeramen wrote: post #36

I propose an alternate question: Even if he got the "package" job he was looking for. Should he take it? I'm currently in an argument with my parents about attempting a startup after I graduate vs getting a job and trying to start something on the side. Obviously the parents think it's too much risk, I think I've tried to "follow the rules" for too long and have nothing to lose. Anyone else been in a similar situatio…

Parents are wired to protect their offspring from risk. It's not so much that they don't have your best interests in mind, but they will prefer a more low-risk strategy for their children than perhaps is optimal.

Re: This Is Why The American Dream Is Out Of Reach

#80

Post by jwhitlark » Tue, Aug 03, 2010, 11:58 PM UTC

rick888 wrote: post #68

prgmatic wrote: post #31

I think the fact that we're seeing a lot of articles, stories, and publications revolving around the thoughts of college becoming useless and the importance of starting businesses says something about the way our culture is changing, and perhaps waking up.

"I think the fact that we're seeing a lot of articles, stories, and publications revolving around the thoughts of college becoming useless and the importance of starting businesses says something about the way our culture is changing, and perhaps waking up." When I was 19, 20, and 21, I didn't see the importance of college. Now that I'm 29 (with a bachelor's degree), I do. I suspect that many of these articles are wr…

I certainly think that education is important. I think the problem lately is people have been valuing formal education over life experience. College is not the only life experience, nor in my opinion, is it the most important one.

Life is not a checklist!