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Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

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Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#71

Post by seppin »

ajross wrote: post #70
RobertoG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursui…

Amazing that people don't see this still. Kaspersky insists that his company has an exception, and it "doesn't work like that", but it's hard to believe. And if you're part of the US IC, it'd be malpractice to believe him.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#72

Post by nickbauman »

ajross wrote: post #70
RobertoG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursui…

Condorcet's Secret aside, Russia is a Mafia State. This is where the state's military and paramilitary are deeply integrated with state-sponsored organized crime. So you have commandos and police both work systems of extortion, human and drug trafficking, money laundering, racketeering, war, espionage, etc. etc. It's a totally different thing than the garden variety corruption you find in western countries, ok?

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#73

Post by lawnchair_larry »

ajross wrote: post #70
RobertoG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursui…

> "In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying."

Where the hell do people come up with this? It's not only untrue, it's not even feasible.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#75

Post by [deleted] »

ajross wrote: post #70
RobertoG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursui…

[deleted]

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#76

Post by Barrin92 »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #73
ajross wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursui…

> "In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying." Where the hell do people come up with this? It's not only untrue, it's not even feasible.

It is absolutely feasible. Much of Russia's wealth is generated by a handful of large state owned businesses, predominantly the oil sector.

And all these positions are staffed with individuals who have intimate contact to Putin himself. Ranging from the husband of his daughter (Kirill Shamalov) who within months after the marriage took over Sibur, one of the largest petro businesses in the country, to old KGB aides of Putin who are now in charge of say, Rostec (Sergey Viktorovich Chemezov ) Russia's largest tech company. He too met Putin during his KGB time in East Germany. The list is too long for one post.

This is called an oligarchy and it's a fairly common historical arrangement. Nothing special about it and can be found in stratified countries where economic and political power is concentrated in the hand of a few families.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#77

Post by ajross »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #73
ajross wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursui…

> "In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying." Where the hell do people come up with this? It's not only untrue, it's not even feasible.

Seems true enough to me, though I'm willing to be educated. Where is the Russian equivalent of, say, the Koch brothers or Soros? That is: wealthy, powerful people who use their wealth to drive policy aimed (often) at unseating the established government.

Russia had a few of those in the mid 90's. They're all jailed or exiled, or in more than a few cases murdered. Who are Putin's powerful domestic opponents whose existence you think is unfeasible to deny?

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#79

Post by threeseed »

mcny wrote: post #31
orf wrote: post #6

So an NSA contractor or employee takes confidential/highly sensitive code and documents home and leaves it on their machine. They then install a pirated version of Office, after disabling their antivirus software which is telling them it is infected with a virus and preventing the installation. Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious, and those files where destine…

> those files where destined to be leaked somehow the moment they left the NSA Those files were destined to be leaked somehow the moment they were created. > Seems like massive incompetence from this user So when we delete production data, it is a process failure[Gitlab postmortem] but when employees at a three letter agency cause spillage, it is a felony? It is wrong on several counts. One: this is data that we shou…

Yes not all data is the same and gets treated differently.

Truly shocking revelation I know.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#80

Post by threeseed »

williamscales wrote: post #65
chimeracoder wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when we delete production data, it is a process failure[Gitlab postmortem] but when employees at a three letter agency cause spillage, it is a felony? Are you equating an accident that resulted in deleted data with someone intentionally taking confidential materials and putting them on an insecure, personal computer?

The Gitlab production data deletion event occurred unintentionally because the system was not designed to make it impossible. Looking at the Kaspersky situation the same way, the leaking of classified documents to Russia occurred because the system was not designed to make it impossible (i.e. by never creating these materials in the first place). GP isn't equating the facts of the events but instead drawing a contras…

Drawing that comparison is asinine though.

We treat nude photos differently than photos of a dog.

We treat credit card/user information differently than app logs.

That's why we have concepts such as HIPAA and PCI.

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