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Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

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61–70 of 139 posts

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#61
post #41
post #6

So an NSA contractor or employee takes confidential/highly sensitive code and documents home and leaves it on their machine. They then install a pirated version of Office, after disabling their antivirus software which is telling them it is infected with a virus and preventing the installation. Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious, and those files where destine…

You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

What's the cutoff size, how was it determined, and by whom?

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#62
post #39

Seems plausible, though regardless of whether Kaspersky cooperates (maybe under some gag order) with Russian agencies or not, it seems prudent for any government in the world to avoid using software that potentially uploads confidential data to foreign servers. Governments anywhere would probably be ill-advised to use anti-virus software from countries like the US or Russia, unless they can be sure that cloud analysi…

>whether Kaspersky cooperates (maybe under some gag order) with Russian agencies or not

no offense, it is just very entertaining(and educational) to observe how people from one culture try to apply their mental frameworks to completely different mentality. There is no "whether", "or not", "gag order" (in the sense as if explicit one was necessary) in the Russian reality in the context of private company cooperating with FSB. Hell, there is no even much of "cooperating". An FSB guy just says what he wants to get, and he gets it pronto. And in cases like Kaspersky it is even more straightforward as Kaspersky and the others there are FSB guys.

I mean it is like a joke among Russians here:

"Did you hear? The NSA thinks about stopping to use Kaspersky on their computers!"

"Wow! How did they discovered (the ploy)? Was it the parachute?"

(the parachute is a reference to a very well known joke about a USSR spy in Nazi Germany from very popular TV movie - the spy was so good and invincible that only the deployed parachute he was dragging behind him in the open daylight on the streets of Berlin was the only possible clue for the Nazis)

Again, it is different reality. In US law protects from and punishes for illegal cooperation, whereis in Russia the system protects for cooperation and punishes for refusal to do so.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#63
As far as I can tell, the only reason US gov banned kaspersky because of some emails and work performed for the FSB led by Igor Chekunov, Kaspersky Lab’s chief legal officer and a former member of the KGB.

Is there any good reason for us gov to mistrust this company or will they need to leak secrets to us before that will happen?

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#64
post #6

So an NSA contractor or employee takes confidential/highly sensitive code and documents home and leaves it on their machine. They then install a pirated version of Office, after disabling their antivirus software which is telling them it is infected with a virus and preventing the installation. Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious, and those files where destine…

> Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious

Why not both?

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#65
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those files where destined to be leaked somehow the moment they left the NSA Those files were destined to be leaked somehow the moment they were created. > Seems like massive incompetence from this user So when we delete production data, it is a process failure[Gitlab postmortem] but when employees at a three letter agency cause spillage, it is a felony? It is wrong on several counts. One: this is data that we shou…

> So when we delete production data, it is a process failure[Gitlab postmortem] but when employees at a three letter agency cause spillage, it is a felony? Are you equating an accident that resulted in deleted data with someone intentionally taking confidential materials and putting them on an insecure, personal computer?

The Gitlab production data deletion event occurred unintentionally because the system was not designed to make it impossible. Looking at the Kaspersky situation the same way, the leaking of classified documents to Russia occurred because the system was not designed to make it impossible (i.e. by never creating these materials in the first place). GP isn't equating the facts of the events but instead drawing a contrast between the way we treat them.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#66
post #41
post #6

So an NSA contractor or employee takes confidential/highly sensitive code and documents home and leaves it on their machine. They then install a pirated version of Office, after disabling their antivirus software which is telling them it is infected with a virus and preventing the installation. Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious, and those files where destine…

You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

If you want to do bussiness in Russia you will have to deal with organized crime and or the government which is very often the same people.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#67
post #41
post #6

So an NSA contractor or employee takes confidential/highly sensitive code and documents home and leaves it on their machine. They then install a pirated version of Office, after disabling their antivirus software which is telling them it is infected with a virus and preventing the installation. Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious, and those files where destine…

You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power.

Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#68
post #6

So an NSA contractor or employee takes confidential/highly sensitive code and documents home and leaves it on their machine. They then install a pirated version of Office, after disabling their antivirus software which is telling them it is infected with a virus and preventing the installation. Seems like massive incompetence from this user rather than Kaspersky doing anything malicious, and those files where destine…

> I don't buy the narrative that Kaspersky is some evil Russian cyber hoover

I don't know about this particular story, but Kaspersky is certainly has strong ties with FSB, FSO and other official structures. I don't mean that it's their main business model — developing anti-virus software pays well enough not to be some cover story — but they're definitely _friendly_ on a deep personal level. Kaspersky himself was educated in KGB school, worked in government structures and has a lot of connections (which he used, for example, with that shady story when his son was kidnapped).

Usually, in Moscow, there is a strong correlation between being a highly educated, well-paid IT professional and having a negative opinion about current Russian regime; but judging from my second-hand stories from friends and colleagues, guys at Kaspersky tend to be very patriotic and pro-government. So, while I don't think that Kaspersky lab was founded deliberately like some sort of cover. But they're the kind of people who would definitely help FSB with whatever they ask — not because of some secret court order, but happily, thinking that they are serving their country and doing a good thing.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Just google for Polonium. They murdered someone, and made sure the victim, and the whole world, knew exactly who was behind it.

Usually if you leave a footnote[0], you have to actually include the note in the footer of your comment. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_(typography) Like so.

Probably misspelled, from memory:

Litvienko (Polonium)

Politovskaya (Journalist)

Nemtsov (Politician)

And no, you do not need to leave a note (IMHO) since the fact that Russian government murders its critics is common knowledge.

Re: Kaspersky: Yes, we obtained NSA secrets. No, we didn’t help steal them

#70
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

> You can say the same about every country

No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning.

In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly.

In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying.

Now I'm sure there are nuts on the internet who will try to claim that the political divisions of the west are "really" just a front for a kleptrocrat cabal or whatever. But in the real world we have one country arresting its enemies and a bunch that don't, and that distinction matters.

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