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Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

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Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#121

Post by alexanderstears »

s73ver_ wrote: post #78
randyrand wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few large silicon valley companies have a large concentration of power. Libertarians like distribution of power among smaller entities.

But that's not Thiel at all. He does want power concentrated; he just wants to be one of those it's concentrated with.

He wants power to be as concentrated as it should be when people are free to gain and lose power as consequences of their decisions. That's contrasted with bureaucratic insulation whereby power isn't gained or lost with bad or good decisions.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#122

Post by belorn »

shadowtree wrote: post #96
evangelista wrote: post #42

I am still really puzzled over exactly why Peter Thiel so so hated. I believe the level of hatred is completely unwarranted. From my understanding, it boils down to this: - He is remotely associated with Trump - He helped take down Gawker - ....something something something...but he backed Trump! For the Gawker part: Gawker outed him without his permission. Outing a gay man is something the tabloids used to do in the…

He also wrote a libertarian pamphlet where he called women's right to vote a blocker of a truly capitalist democracy. Never backed down that claim. Here is the pamphlet, from 2009: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... Quote: "Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — h…

I always try to find the context when people are outraged by a quote, so I started by trying to figure out what the definition is of the quoted "capitalist democracy". Wikipedia gave "page does not exist", so I went to google. Google gave me a bunch of news article about Peter Thiel pamphlet. The term don't seems to exist outside it.

So I went back to the pamphlet and looked if it defined the term only to find that the above quote is the first time he uses "capitalist democracy". The only thing that then make sense is to look above in the text to see what if anything related to either capitalist or democracy. However the only thing he say is that "capitalism simply is not that popular", and "I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible".

So I can only really make a blind guess what he is trying to say. In 1920 9% of women were working, while about 90-95% of men were working. It might be this difference that the pamphlet is referring to, but if so, it is also missing the historical context of that date. World War 1 ended in 1918, and during that year the US congress had planned to issue a female war draft because they ran out of men to fuel the war machine and the voluntary female work places did not attract enough women. Naturally you can't force people into the military without rightfully open up the issue of voting rights. The draft, and associated discussion regarding voting was more or less decided, but then the war ended. The female draft became first delayed and then scrapped. The question of voting as we all know did however get voted in.

It is in the context of those first few years after world war 1 that the pamphlet bring up that quote. It seems to have no insight to 1920 economical environment, and even less so with the economy of 2009, that its hard to figure out what the intended meaning is supposed to be. Maybe the whole pamphlet was written to say that women should not vote because 1920s enjoyed political optimism?, but that too would also just be an other guess to what would be a very odd thing to write.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#123

Post by s73ver_ »

alexanderstears wrote: post #121
s73ver_ wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not Thiel at all. He does want power concentrated; he just wants to be one of those it's concentrated with.

He wants power to be as concentrated as it should be when people are free to gain and lose power as consequences of their decisions. That's contrasted with bureaucratic insulation whereby power isn't gained or lost with bad or good decisions.

Nothing I've seen indicates that's even remotely close to the truth. He wants power to be concentrated with him.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#124

Post by shadowtree »

belorn wrote: post #122
shadowtree wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also wrote a libertarian pamphlet where he called women's right to vote a blocker of a truly capitalist democracy. Never backed down that claim. Here is the pamphlet, from 2009: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... Quote: "Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — h…

I always try to find the context when people are outraged by a quote, so I started by trying to figure out what the definition is of the quoted "capitalist democracy". Wikipedia gave "page does not exist", so I went to google. Google gave me a bunch of news article about Peter Thiel pamphlet. The term don't seems to exist outside it. So I went back to the pamphlet and looked if it defined the term only to find that t…

No one is arguing that Thiel's pamphlet is fully grounded in sound reasoning, facts, etc.

As you outline, he is thoroughly confused.

He proposes evasive techniques for libertarians like him, like seasteading, to escape and build the perfect society - I guess with no voting rights for anyone but cool dudes like him.

I took your comment as genuine, not some bullshit attempt to deflect through focus on some minute detail. Hope I am not wrong.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#125

Post by cgmg »

shadowtree wrote: post #124
belorn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always try to find the context when people are outraged by a quote, so I started by trying to figure out what the definition is of the quoted "capitalist democracy". Wikipedia gave "page does not exist", so I went to google. Google gave me a bunch of news article about Peter Thiel pamphlet. The term don't seems to exist outside it. So I went back to the pamphlet and looked if it defined the term only to find that t…

No one is arguing that Thiel's pamphlet is fully grounded in sound reasoning, facts, etc. As you outline, he is thoroughly confused. He proposes evasive techniques for libertarians like him, like seasteading, to escape and build the perfect society - I guess with no voting rights for anyone but cool dudes like him. I took your comment as genuine, not some bullshit attempt to deflect through focus on some minute detai…

> I took your comment as genuine, not some bullshit attempt to deflect through focus on some minute detail. Hope I am not wrong.

Yeah, who cares about pesky details, am I right?

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#126

Post by SeoxyS »

dionidium wrote: post #112
dionidium wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument assumes that the point of person A responding to person B is for person A to convince person B, specifically, at that specific moment in time of the specific details of their specific argument. 1) That's not how persuasion works. 2) It's not how ideas or the stubborn humans who hold them work. 3) The point is not , in fact, to convince that one particular person at that one particular moment in time. If…

Just to put a cap on this, if tptacek wants to avoid "a really long, pointless political argument," then he should close his browser and take a walk. We're not running out of bits on the internet. There's room for all of it. If these conversations bore or otherwise bother you, then don't participate. It's the suggestion that you know what's best for me , too, that bristles.

This thread itself is a great example of how this conversation was _not_ pointless. Intellectually interesting points made on both sides about the point of debating.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#127

Post by belorn »

shadowtree wrote: post #124
belorn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always try to find the context when people are outraged by a quote, so I started by trying to figure out what the definition is of the quoted "capitalist democracy". Wikipedia gave "page does not exist", so I went to google. Google gave me a bunch of news article about Peter Thiel pamphlet. The term don't seems to exist outside it. So I went back to the pamphlet and looked if it defined the term only to find that t…

No one is arguing that Thiel's pamphlet is fully grounded in sound reasoning, facts, etc. As you outline, he is thoroughly confused. He proposes evasive techniques for libertarians like him, like seasteading, to escape and build the perfect society - I guess with no voting rights for anyone but cool dudes like him. I took your comment as genuine, not some bullshit attempt to deflect through focus on some minute detai…

Intention behind the comment is as stated that I want to try understand the context and intended message behind a quote. Normally this allow for a more nuanced view, and also detect when context dictate the meaning of a quote. By documenting and writing about it maybe someone can point to something I missed, but also give insight to people who don't want to investigate the text themselves.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#128

Post by SeoxyS »

shadowtree wrote: post #96
evangelista wrote: post #42

I am still really puzzled over exactly why Peter Thiel so so hated. I believe the level of hatred is completely unwarranted. From my understanding, it boils down to this: - He is remotely associated with Trump - He helped take down Gawker - ....something something something...but he backed Trump! For the Gawker part: Gawker outed him without his permission. Outing a gay man is something the tabloids used to do in the…

He also wrote a libertarian pamphlet where he called women's right to vote a blocker of a truly capitalist democracy. Never backed down that claim. Here is the pamphlet, from 2009: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... Quote: "Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — h…

I'm not sure why that quote that people keep bringing up is so outrageous to people. In my opinion, it's a pretty factual analysis of the political climate; in which the voter demographics have shifted in a way which makes it tough for libertarians to win elections. Welfare recipients, for obvious reasons, are anti-libertarian. Women, supposedly, are also less libertarian than men? I don't know if that's true; but regardless, what's wrong with stating that fact.

I think people are upset because they assume that it's implied in Thiel's statement that he believes women shouldn't have received the right to vote. But it's important to note that he has never advocated for that. Not in this quote, anyways. He was merely pointing out a few shifts in the past century that have made it extremely hard for libertarians to win elections.

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#129

Post by sangnoir »

JonFish85 wrote: post #85
jedberg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theil didn't just hurt a bully. He took it a step further. For one, he financed someone else's lawsuit, because his own was unwinnable (they did in fact print the truth, that he is gay). More importantly, he hurt free speech through the chilling effect of his suit. What he basically did was say, "don't ever print anything negative about a billionaire because they can take down your entire business". So now if a billi…

"What he basically did was say, "don't ever print anything negative about a billionaire because they can take down your entire business"" No, he didn't. Gawker died on its own merits; in an alternative world where Gawker continued to flaunt the law because someone couldn't afford to fund a lawsuit, I'm OK with this outcome. Not to mention, Gawker did themselves absolutely no favors, from ignoring a federal judge to f…

> No, he didn't. Gawker died on its own merits

Just-world fallacy. If I had an axe to grind with you and had unlimited funds - how many of your negative interactions with (contractors|coworkers|neighbours|acquaintances) in the past couple of years could be escalated to financial ruin? If you survive the first suit, how many more could you stomach before declaring bankruptcy?

By accident or design, the fact that legal action is expensive acts as a brake on suits without much merit (to a degree).

Re: Y Combinator Cuts Ties with Peter Thiel After Ending Part-Time Partner Program

#130

Post by alexanderstears »

s73ver_ wrote: post #123
alexanderstears wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wants power to be as concentrated as it should be when people are free to gain and lose power as consequences of their decisions. That's contrasted with bureaucratic insulation whereby power isn't gained or lost with bad or good decisions.

Nothing I've seen indicates that's even remotely close to the truth. He wants power to be concentrated with him.

Then why did he support another person's presidential run?

And why is it a problem for him to concentrate power so long as the power transfer is consensual? or democratic?

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