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Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

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Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#181

Post by weeksie »

OhHeyItsE wrote: post #128
weeksie wrote: post #104

I'm 40. I work 6-9 months out of the year. When I'm consulting I get great contracts, just wrapping up an idyllic green field Elixir and React product development. Zero to product in six months. Happy customers, happy colleagues. Now the weather here (NYC) is getting a bit cool so last night my girlfriend and I booked tickets to Thailand for the months of January and February. Being an old software developer is prett…

A long-time dream of mine. Am envious. Wish I had the confidence to do it. Wish I knew how to get "Client #1"

The best advice I can give is to reach out and talk to people. Cold emails, calls, etc. . . . It's uncomfortable as an engineer, believe me. But the way to get the work you want is to reach out and search for it.

I have a pretty deep network but I get more than half of my gigs from new contacts. The deep connex are far more important for references and social proof than they are for generating work (though they're good for that too)

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#183

Post by bostik »

greglindahl wrote: post #174
bostik wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can guarantee that it's far too much when you have a family. You want to be able to spend at least some time with your kid(s) and see them in a state other than overly tired and/or hyper before going to bed. If tech companies want to encourage women to join by paying them to freeze their eggs, I don't see why they wouldn't pay men to have a vasectomy too. What better way to ensure that family won't get in the way?

All US medical insurance covers vasectomies.

I didn't know that, but for some reason it kind of makes sense. (I'm a European.)

Neuter one male, prevent N+1 potentially expensive spawns from ever happening.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#184

Post by greglindahl »

bostik wrote: post #183
greglindahl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All US medical insurance covers vasectomies.

I didn't know that, but for some reason it kind of makes sense. (I'm a European.) Neuter one male, prevent N+1 potentially expensive spawns from ever happening.

... it's part of covering birth control. The female equivalent (tubal ligation) is also covered. I wouldn't try to read anything into it, it's a complicated issue and history.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#185

Post by astrodust »

artmageddon wrote: post #147
astrodust wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're coming up on 40 you should know a lot of people. You should have a work history so ridiculously long you need to omit 75% of it to fit it on a two page resume. You should know the business, which companies are succeeding, which are failing, and what problems are most interesting to you. This is a huge advantage compared to some recent graduate that has no idea, knows nobody, and is still learning the geogra…

Thanks for the advice(and I mean that in all seriousness)! I need to start making some more friends it seems, and while I've been employed for 12+ years, my work history doesn't quite meet that standard yet.. looks like I have some more hustling to do..

I've been in "the business" since 1988, so maybe my experience is different. In that time I've met, worked with, worked for, and managed a number of great people.

It's not so much about hustling as it is developing meaningful professional relationships with people. You don't need to be a huge extrovert to make it work, you just need to engage with people. Solve problems together. Help each other out. If you get someone out of a jam they'll remember it, and when it comes time for a reference maybe they'll be there to back you up and vouch that you're the right material.

It's pretty easy to go about doing your job without really paying attention to anyone else on your team or at your company.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#186

Post by pw »

tptacek wrote: post #180
pw wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about specializing in a platform or language makes it hard to fashion a value proposition for it relative to one’s competitors in the market? (Not disagreeing; just trying to wrap my head around this. Also, I think your comments in this thread have been super useful.)

Every senior developer in the market who codes at all in your platform is going to represent themselves as a subject matter expert in that platform. To make matters worse, developers will disagree with each other about what the Right Answers are for a given platform or language or engineering approach. Cryptographers (as a counterexample) also disagree with each other about the Right Answers in crypto. But serious cr…

Thanks so much for the response. Can you say any more about what kind of domains tend to be lucrative? It seems like all your examples (distributed systems, sensor fusion, software security, OS kernels) seem very “technical”, for lack of a better word, compared to, say, knowing a lot about the health club industry (a different example mentioned in this thread). Do you think that’s an important distinction?

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#187

Post by jcrawfordor »

cgh wrote: post #74
marktangotango wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java and Spring, or C# and .net. Java is derided as the next cobol, but there is a lot of new development, lots of jobs, and strong demand for senior talent. Source; me, been doing java since 2003. Age 40+.

Can confirm. Also, I suspect a lot of this "there's no life after 40" stuff mainly relates to startups and certain small companies. It certainly doesn't apply to BigCorps.

I suspect this is true. I hear the "middle-aged programmers aren't employable" story a lot on the internet, but in the large organization where I work I, in my mid-20s, am conspicuously very junior. Most of my coworkers are middle-aged, most of the program management are getting into their '50s, as you might expect of someone in a role seen as senior.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#188

Post by vba »

ryandvm wrote: post #5

If you decide to stop learning new technologies - yes. If you want to continue learning new tech and position yourself as a truly experienced engineer, there is plenty of headroom for developers willing to continue to grow. I'm 40 years old and I just had my best year yet - by far. Obviously a big part of that was the decision to move into contracting, but I'm not particularly worried about getting put out to pasture…

can you quantify how you just had your best year? Did consulting bring your more free time, money, satisfaction ? and by how much?

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#189

Post by galfarragem »

jordanb wrote: post #165
tptacek wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to convince me that computer vision is a bad domain to specialize in for journeyman programmers because it takes post-grad education to get a job, that'll be a quick and easy argument. As a counterexample, though, most serious work in cryptography (for instance) is done by grad students, but the best jobs in crypto are not automatically going to grad students. Either way: if your goal is to maximize lifet…

I'll have to defer to your knowledge of the market for self-taught cryptologists. My understanding is that most journeyman programmers working in security are in Burb Suite Operator positions. My point isn't that becoming a subject matter expert isn't a good way to supercharge your earnings for a few years. I agree with you there. Clearly, a guy with lots of experience with and deep knowledge of the Oracle database c…

Management is always the safest path.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#190

Post by pjc50 »

lliamander wrote: post #40
Gargoyle wrote: post #22

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

Then let me ask: how do you make it past 40 in software? Specifically, how do you position yourself so that you are actively sought after (rather than merely employable)?

I started at 21 and somehow just kept getting older.

More seriously, having had a look around my cohort, there aren't that many people who've left programming altogether, and those that have have done so for personal reasons. Generally people have moved "upwards" and acquired management track positions. Small companies are good for this - because it's so flat you can easily get a high-ranking job title which you can then leverage into the next job.

Look "up". Look at the older and more senior people in your organisation. Maybe even directly ask them about careers. Recognise that if nobody around you is over 30, you're either in a very unusual place like an SV startup or you've wandered into Logan's Run.

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