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Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

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Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#131

Post by bkeroack »

tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

Agreed. There is a strong drive in industry to commoditize "coding". For example, the wide proliferation of bootcamps. The world being what it is, if the perceived skill is equal companies would prefer to hire the cheaper 20 year old bootcamp grad vs the more expensive 45 yr old. So it's important to grow your skills and knowledge in areas that are not vulnerable to bootcamp commodification.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#133

Post by iguanayou »

pmoriarty wrote: post #83
maxxxxx wrote: post #7

I am 50 and I do OK. I also see people around my age and older who do well too. It seems to me that a lot of people who get filtered out in their 30s should never have been in the profession either for lack of motivation, interest or talent. If you are not self motivated to constantly evolve you have a problem. Moreso than in a lot of other professions.

"If you are not self motivated to constantly evolve you have a problem. Moreso than in a lot of other professions." I was self-motivated to constantly learn, and had no trouble doing it... when I was young. It was the right profession for me then, when I had the interest and passion. After a while, though, much of it starts to seem the same. The towering vistas that were once full of mystery, adventure, and discovery…

This is me exactly. Started in the tech field, burnt out and became a teacher, returned to tech for the money, and I'm currently in another burnout period. I agree with everything you said about learning being exciting when you're new, but not after you've been doing it for a while. Also agree with the bit about corporate bullshit and just not being a career-oriented person.

I really think this time I'm out for good. I'm approaching that age where it's hard to get programming jobs anyway. I've got some side businesses doing OK; I'm working on ramping them up, and trying to get some teaching gigs to fill the gap in the meantime. And if all that fails I'm considering getting back into the lawn care business like I did when I was a student.

I used to be very passionate about programming: I started in 4th grade, started my first software business in college, and was always doing side projects.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#134

Post by StreamBright »

herf wrote: post #26

I think this bias needs to evolve, and maybe birth year is more descriptive than age. In 2000, a 40 year old was born in 1960, when the home PC was nearly 20 years off. A programmer who is 40 today was born in 1977, and they could learn to program while they were in diapers. These are very different experiences, and the bar will move over time.

Yep, 79er here, LOAD "$",8 baby! :)

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#135

Post by ChicagoDave »

There a couple of aspects to this issue. I'm 53.

Management: I would argue that it's critical to garner management skills well before you turn 40. If you wait until 50, you're going to find it very difficult to move from talent-oriented jobs to management ones.

Coding: I hate to generalize, but it's very likely you'll learn so much over your career that you will become an ineffective developer. You will know how to do things well and will have a difficult time doing things just to get them done. It's fairly common for projects to need completion over correctness and quality. This is where younger developers are great. They don't know they're creating technical debt, so they have no angst over it. But you will and this is bad for the project and for you. You probably need to find a place in software development where you can mentor and lead, but reduce your involvement with actual day-to-day coding.

Challenges: I personally suffer from "it-must-be-challenging-or-I-get-bored" syndrome. The longer you write code, the harder this is to suppress and the more you look for shiny things to work on. This is bad for you because it's bad for your employer. If you don't suffer from this, you're amazing and any employer would love to keep you until you're dead.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#136

Post by AnimalMuppet »

maxxxxx wrote: post #39
dmh2000 wrote: post #25

not always. i'm about to retire at 65 and I've been a hands-on software engineer for 35 years. Pro-tip : one type of work that can last is in the Defense industry. Projects in that industry can last 10-20 years or more, and experience seems to be valued much more there.

Same for medical. Progress is often annoyingly slow but it's definitely a place where experience counts.

More generally, embedded systems (medical and defense, yes, but it's wider than those).

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#137

Post by lgas »

outworlder wrote: post #50
Koshkin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sitting in the office, undisturbed, for eight hours, coding - sound perfect to me!

If you are in an office, and also undisturbed for 8 hours, that tells me you are not in a 9 to 5 job.

9pm to 5am, perhaps.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#138

Post by matwood »

herf wrote: post #26

I think this bias needs to evolve, and maybe birth year is more descriptive than age. In 2000, a 40 year old was born in 1960, when the home PC was nearly 20 years off. A programmer who is 40 today was born in 1977, and they could learn to program while they were in diapers. These are very different experiences, and the bar will move over time.

I was born in 1977 and had a computer that plugged into the TV. I remember copying basic programs out of a book, but do not remember my age at the time. I had no way to save the programs, so it was pretty stressful when the power would get shut off. I continued to tinker with computers/tech (my Nintendo was in multiple pieces, yet still worked :) ) off and on, but didn't get serious about programming until 1995 and have been doing it ever since.

I'm sure some companies have an age bias, but I think it will be less and less as the generation who grew up with computers gets older.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#139

Post by rubicon33 »

draw_down wrote: post #108
dandr01d wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. I'm currently on a team that has a couple senior engineers, but neither of them are true experts of what our team does (iOS). One has decades of web dev experience while the other has decades of Java service experience. Our team badly needs an iOS expert to make the tough decisions and lead architecture.

That would still be programming specialization, as opposed to domain specialization where programming can be applied. I used to know this guy who knew the ins and outs of the health club industry, and he could program a little. He made a lot of money. I think this is more in line with what tptacek is describing.

I think it's still a domain specialization to a degree. The domain being, mobile.

Being an expert in iOS is more than just knowing how to program in Swift/Objective-C. It encompasses a deeper understanding of mobile development and the apple ecosystem.

True senior level iOS people will understand core user interface design principles as they relate to mobile, and will be intimately aware of Apple's Human Interface Guidelines. They'll understand mobile accessibility and be deeply familiar with the myriad of tools in iOS. They'll understand internationalization and how to design an application to support various calendar systems, and text layout paradigms. They know the ins-and-outs of Apple's provisioning and certificate system and can quickly sniff out configuration issues. They understand how important testing is and how well supported it is. They know how to setup automated builds using xcodebuild, and how to support automatic unit and ui tests.

The list goes on and on. Certainly one could just be an app developer and stop there. But being a mobile domain expert in my opinion is a much more valuable albeit niche position.

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