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Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

quora.com

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Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#121

Post by jordanb »

tptacek wrote: post #107
dominotw wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easy to switch , not easy to own.

If by "not easy" you mean "a couple of years", sure. Don't mistake what I'm saying. I'm using the word "own" rhetorically. Obviously there will be no point in your career where you are likely to be the world's leading expert on computer vision. What you're aiming for is to be the leading expert that is available to employers within a reasonable amount of time at the level of compensation you're hoping for . It's a sp…

An LOB programmer could work on computer vision side projects for a couple years and probably put together a neat portfolio of work.

But the few people who are really hiring people who "own" CV want PHDs with a relevant thesis and you're not going to get one of those working weeknights after the kids go to bed.

Meanwhile people pursuing PHDs have no idea if their area of research is going to be hot in industry when they're done.

Granted, a lucky few people who follow the autodidactical route may find themselves authors of a really popular OSS project. Or they may be able to luck or maneuver themselves into a position at their current employer working in a capacity that future employers will see as "relevant industry experience." Obviously this is hardly a sure thing and if they plan it wrong or just get unlucky they're not going to have a nice outcome.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#122

Post by christophilus »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #4

The answer is pretty reasonable in the Quora post (Answer: no). In my experience, people who get something more out writing software than a salary tend to stay in software development, at some level, for their entire career. That said, if you're a software developer and you're also good at communicating and managing people, seriously consider moving into management. While I think the stories of the '10x' developer ar…

When I worked at Microsoft, I asked my dev manager why he took such a boring (as perceived by me) job. He said that he'd peaked at how productive he could be personally, and the only way he could improve was to scale out...

A good manager is really, really hard to find. Good developers are easy to find (relative to good managers). So, while I don't want to get into management, I also recommend it to anyone who might have potential in that regard.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#123

Post by tptacek »

jordanb wrote: post #121
tptacek wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "not easy" you mean "a couple of years", sure. Don't mistake what I'm saying. I'm using the word "own" rhetorically. Obviously there will be no point in your career where you are likely to be the world's leading expert on computer vision. What you're aiming for is to be the leading expert that is available to employers within a reasonable amount of time at the level of compensation you're hoping for . It's a sp…

An LOB programmer could work on computer vision side projects for a couple years and probably put together a neat portfolio of work. But the few people who are really hiring people who "own" CV want PHDs with a relevant thesis and you're not going to get one of those working weeknights after the kids go to bed. Meanwhile people pursuing PHDs have no idea if their area of research is going to be hot in industry when t…

If you want to convince me that computer vision is a bad domain to specialize in for journeyman programmers because it takes post-grad education to get a job, that'll be a quick and easy argument.

As a counterexample, though, most serious work in cryptography (for instance) is done by grad students, but the best jobs in crypto are not automatically going to grad students.

Either way: if your goal is to maximize lifetime earnings, I think dedicating your career to "programming" is a bad call.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#124

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lliamander wrote: post #40
Gargoyle wrote: post #22

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

Then let me ask: how do you make it past 40 in software? Specifically, how do you position yourself so that you are actively sought after (rather than merely employable)?

You have to be better than you were at 25 (more productive, making fewer mistakes, able to take on greater responsibilities). You have to be better than you were at 30.

You don't have to be as actively sought after. You should be staying at positions longer - 5 years, maybe even 10. (Note well, however: By this point, you probably have seen several toxic environments. If you're in one, don't wait - get out. Life is too short to put up with it.)

I have a file where I keep track of headhunters that I think are worth their salt. I'll use it if and when I feel like it's time to move on.

For the record, I'm 55.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#125

Post by astrodust »

zoul wrote: post #54
ChuckMcM wrote: post #4

The answer is pretty reasonable in the Quora post (Answer: no). In my experience, people who get something more out writing software than a salary tend to stay in software development, at some level, for their entire career. That said, if you're a software developer and you're also good at communicating and managing people, seriously consider moving into management. While I think the stories of the '10x' developer ar…

Isn’t it a big loss to move into management when one loves to code?

Once you know how to code really well shouldn't you be in a position to manage developers and ensure that they're doing a really good job at writing code? You'll be able to help them tackle bigger problems, work on more ambitious solutions, than they could if you're stuck cranking out code with no time to assist.

If it's your job to magnify the output of your developers, when you know intimately how to do their job, you can get spectacular results.

Non-technical managers can't do this, they don't have the depth and insight to help shape their team the same way a developer does.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#126

Post by golergka »

weeksie wrote: post #104

I'm 40. I work 6-9 months out of the year. When I'm consulting I get great contracts, just wrapping up an idyllic green field Elixir and React product development. Zero to product in six months. Happy customers, happy colleagues. Now the weather here (NYC) is getting a bit cool so last night my girlfriend and I booked tickets to Thailand for the months of January and February. Being an old software developer is prett…

Can't help but feeling envy. In my industry (gamedev), business usually starts offering good salaries when there's a LOT of legacy to dig through - building something from scratch is always a risky venture that almost no-one is going to pay you for.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#127

Post by matwood »

dandr01d wrote: post #102
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

I second this. I'm currently on a team that has a couple senior engineers, but neither of them are true experts of what our team does (iOS). One has decades of web dev experience while the other has decades of Java service experience. Our team badly needs an iOS expert to make the tough decisions and lead architecture.

You did miss the point of the parent. To be more clear, programming for the most part is easy. Knowing what to program is hard. I don't know what your iOS app does, but lets pretend it's something to do with healthcare. Someone who is an expert in the healthcare domain and can program (or learn whatever stack you are using) is going to be much more valuable than an expert iOS person who has no clue about healthcare. That same person will also remain valuable as technology changes (which it will) since the company will likely still be in healthcare.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#128

Post by OhHeyItsE »

weeksie wrote: post #104

I'm 40. I work 6-9 months out of the year. When I'm consulting I get great contracts, just wrapping up an idyllic green field Elixir and React product development. Zero to product in six months. Happy customers, happy colleagues. Now the weather here (NYC) is getting a bit cool so last night my girlfriend and I booked tickets to Thailand for the months of January and February. Being an old software developer is prett…

A long-time dream of mine. Am envious. Wish I had the confidence to do it. Wish I knew how to get "Client #1"

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#129

Post by [deleted] »

lliamander wrote: post #40
Gargoyle wrote: post #22

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

Then let me ask: how do you make it past 40 in software? Specifically, how do you position yourself so that you are actively sought after (rather than merely employable)?

[deleted]

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#130

Post by StreamBright »

maxxxxx wrote: post #7

I am 50 and I do OK. I also see people around my age and older who do well too. It seems to me that a lot of people who get filtered out in their 30s should never have been in the profession either for lack of motivation, interest or talent. If you are not self motivated to constantly evolve you have a problem. Moreso than in a lot of other professions.

The best software engineers I have ever worked with were all 30+ some 40+, some even 50+. It is simple, practice makes perfect. All of the old timers were perfect culture fit as well, if somebody curious about that. I know entire companies built by only 40+ software engineers too.
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