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Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

wsj.com

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Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#91

Post by k2xl »

jmknoll wrote: post #84
k2xl wrote: post #45

With my Google Home, I often ask it, "Can my dog eat X" and it'll answer usually from the single answer from Google. While Google Home usually says the source, "According to WebMD..." or "According to ..." it would be horrible if it gave the wrong answer - saying something was safe to eat but it really wasn't. I hope they take extra precaution with answers related to medicine/safety.

Relevant text: "Google spokeswoman Susan Cadrecha said the company’s goal isn’t to do the thinking for users but “to help you find relevant information quickly and easily.” She added, “We encourage users to understand the full context by clicking through to the source.”" I sincerely hope no one is relying on Google to do the thinking for them.

I sincerely hope no one is either - but why should Google even pretend to know the answer to something?

How is the average, non-technical person supposed to assume that Google won't give an accurate answer to a medical question?

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#92

Post by Klathmon »

untog wrote: post #80
ArchReaper wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your argument "Google should not be allowed to do anything if their algorithms aren't 100% flawless and perfect"? I really am failing to understand your viewpoint.

No, my argument is "Google should not present results as if they are an absolute answer when they are not capable of knowing whether that is true". It's pretty simple: a list of search results does not imply certainty. Injecting a single "answer" does. As I mentioned elsewhere, it's as if they have decided that the "I'm feeling lucky" button should apply to everyone.

But is google even implying that the results are the absolute answer?

If I search for "how tall is tom cruise" and it gives me a number. It doesn't say that number is an absolute answer, it doesn't say that it's verified, it just shows the number.

I personally don't see that as any different than if it returned a few websites, all of which say the same thing when I go to them. In all cases it's "Google" giving me the answer (an evil google could just as easily return websites with false results on purpose), but the way it currently works, it gives me the answer faster and in a better format. And even if that answer isn't 100% factually correct or verified in any way, it's still the same quality I would have gotten from google in any other method.

If the answer is the same using both methods, wouldn't the only real solution to be "refuse to answer the question"?

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#93

Post by astrodust »

ColanR wrote: post #87
jdietrich wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Google is presenting the tool as a canonical source of truth, it needs to be right 100% of the time. Should we burn all the dictionaries and encyclopaedias because they aren't perfectly accurate? Textbooks don't have a black-box warning on the front page saying "The accuracy of this book cannot be guaranteed. Please verify any facts stated before storing them in your long-term memory or using them for any purpose…

> Textbooks don't have a black-box warning on the front page saying "The accuracy of this book cannot be guaranteed. Please verify any facts stated before storing them in your long-term memory or using them for any purpose"? I just checked a 2004 medical textbok I had nearby (don't ask). YES, they do have such disclaimers, and they're worded even better than you put it.

Science and medical textbooks should have a "best before" date on them.

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#94

Post by astrodust »

retSava wrote: post #33
maxerickson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

97% accuracy is abysmal for something you are presenting as "answers".

What you/we need is a healthy dose of taking things with a grain of salt and not just blindly trust what we read/hear. This goes not only for results in search services today, but was also valid in the time before this, when we used encyclopedias, or asked someone.

This is not about "a grain of salt". Imagine you're a ten year old kid and you're looking for answers on some subject, say the Holocaust. What if all the "answers" you're getting are from far-right hate groups? How do you think that will affect that person?

Likewise, if you're looking for medical advice and you're getting nothing but anti-science woo, can we really be surprised that anti-vaxxers are becoming more numerous? These outbreaks of deadly, yet preventable diseases have serious fatal consequences for many.

"Grain of salt" means fuck all when people are dying from bad answers. You can't learn from your mistakes when you're dead.

At least Google could frame these with the idea of keeping a skeptical mind, but they should probably stop surfacing things as "the answer" and instead as "top search result".

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#95

Post by astrodust »

jgalt212 wrote: post #36
johnhenry wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what the margin of error is on these things, but generally 97% should probably be considered 100%.

a parser that is 97% correct is broken.

It's like Intel's floating point math used to be about 97% correct. Good enough, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#96

Post by ColanR »

dragonwriter wrote: post #90
ColanR wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Textbooks don't have a black-box warning on the front page saying "The accuracy of this book cannot be guaranteed. Please verify any facts stated before storing them in your long-term memory or using them for any purpose"? I just checked a 2004 medical textbok I had nearby (don't ask). YES, they do have such disclaimers, and they're worded even better than you put it.

> I just checked a medical textbok I had nearby (don't ask). YES, they do have such disclaimers Most textbooks do not. Medical textbooks (and websites, etc.) often do because of special circumstances (legal and practical) applying to that field.

A few levels up, medical facts were the example used for needing disclaimers. The point is that Google isn't putting up disclaimers even where they should.

> ...97 correct facts about, say, gardening, and three incorrect facts about first aid is not a successful system...

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#97

Post by ColanR »

astrodust wrote: post #93
ColanR wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Textbooks don't have a black-box warning on the front page saying "The accuracy of this book cannot be guaranteed. Please verify any facts stated before storing them in your long-term memory or using them for any purpose"? I just checked a 2004 medical textbok I had nearby (don't ask). YES, they do have such disclaimers, and they're worded even better than you put it.

Science and medical textbooks should have a "best before" date on them.

That would be the copyright date of the book, combined with medical licensing requirements that doctors stay up-to-date in their field.

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#98

Post by astrodust »

ColanR wrote: post #97
astrodust wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science and medical textbooks should have a "best before" date on them.

That would be the copyright date of the book, combined with medical licensing requirements that doctors stay up-to-date in their field.

Just imagine if software engineers had the same certification requirements as, say, pilots. Or, hell, plumbers.

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#99

Post by dragonwriter »

ColanR wrote: post #96
dragonwriter wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just checked a medical textbok I had nearby (don't ask). YES, they do have such disclaimers Most textbooks do not. Medical textbooks (and websites, etc.) often do because of special circumstances (legal and practical) applying to that field.

A few levels up, medical facts were the example used for needing disclaimers. The point is that Google isn't putting up disclaimers even where they should. > ...97 correct facts about, say, gardening, and three incorrect facts about first aid is not a successful system...

General information sources that include but aren't specifically focussed on medical information don't usually have disclaimers on the medical information (e.g., encyclopedias don't have disclaimers on entries that happen to concern medical information, while medical textbooks do).

Re: Google increasingly is promoting a single answer for many questions

#100

Post by VonGallifrey »

k2xl wrote: post #89
VonGallifrey wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would hope that you take extra precaution with answers related to medicine/safety. Why would you trust google with something like this? If you ask Google "Can my dog eat X" and blindly trust the answer then it is your fault and not google's if your dog gets sick. Google isn't responsible for your dog, you are!

First off, why are you assuming I'm saying that Google is responsible for my dog? You may want to re-read what I wrote. I never said I'm taking blind trust to what Google says. However, for the average person, hearing an answer so confidentially from a Google product gives it integrity - whether you agree with it or not. Think about it - millions of people Google medical questions and they trust "blindly" trust Googl…

You did not explicitly say in your comment that you blindly what google says and you did not explicitly say that google is responsible for your dog.

What you did explicitly say is:

- You often ask "Can my dog eat X".

- It would be horrible if google gave the wrong answer.

- You hope google would take extra precautions with answers to medicine/safety.

The second point implies that you act with this information alone and the third one implies that you would at least partially blame google in that instance.

I am actually terrified that you think there are millions of people blindly trusting google with medical questions. That is a very stupid thing to do. They should go to a doctor or at least read a bit further then that.

I do maybe see the danger of providing a single answer response to medical questions, but I don't jump to assume that they should take extra precautions. Rather I would think that they should stop providing answers to these questions. Or maybe they should do the idiotic american thing of providing disclaimers for common sense things. Like this: Don't blindly trust google. Talk to your doctor/vet/lawyer/expert.

Why should they take extra precautions? Why would they be responsible?

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