Live data from Hacker News

Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

quora.com

91–100 of 411 posts

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#91
I just started my first job in CS this year, at 25. And after a few months of working on products, which are themselves actually quite fascinating, I don't see myself working in Software Development for more than 5-6 years.

The thing that stands out to me is how much more successful product and project managers are at my company, and they are doing much less work and have less hectic jobs. Software dev is interesting, but I plan to transition into management because I think a software development background can actually help me propel much further in the career than just sticking to programming will. And the other thing is that as a developer, I have to continue to keep up with newer technologies and make sure that I know what's new, or be at the risk of being replaced eventually.

CS is a great field, but I think that the pace at which most big companies hire and lay off employees is too significant to ensure a stable job for too long.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#92
Well, you need to do the value proposition analysis basically. When a company is hiring a software developer, what value do they expect to bring in (i.e. what would change if the position was never filled) and why would they prefer an older candidate over a younger one? As long as you can definitively answer this question (and find employers that share the same point of view), you will stay employed.

In reality there's one problem though. I don't know if this is specific to software engineering, or just a part of the human nature, but the reasoning behind many hires I've seen is dead simple: get someone at the bottom of the food chain so that the other participants can move higher. What would change if the position would not get filled? Nothing business-wise, the product would still be around and would solve exactly the same problems in exactly the same way, just Alice the Department head would have fewer head count and Bob the Developer would be still writing the code himself instead of mentoring the new hire. As you can see, in this scenario there's no benefit at all of hiring an experienced person - instead you need to hire someone who would desperately need mentoring and would be just smart enough to follow orders.

So if you want to stay in the industry past the age of a cute aspiring busboy, you need to learn how to spot job opportunities where the experience you would bring in is actually beneficial to the business. But if you learn to do that, you may be much better off starting your own consulting business, or growing into product management.

Of course, many of us (me included) are introverts and absolutely hate dealing with people, preferring solving the logical puzzles in solitude. The trouble is - a huge part of your puzzle solving skill is specific to the type of the puzzle, and this knowledge tends to get quickly outdated when the technology changes. On the other hand, experience in being nice to people and convincing them to do something that would benefit the business (a.k.a. management) is pretty universal (as well as the political skills) and won't get outdated when a company switches from scrum to kanban or vice versa.

P.S. Yes, the general ability to think structurally, break down complex problems, etc. is portable between different tech stacks, but you would never convince a non-technical person about it, unless you have invested a lot into your persuasion skills.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#93

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

Then let me ask: how do you make it past 40 in software? Specifically, how do you position yourself so that you are actively sought after (rather than merely employable)?

Understand business needs. Be able to communicate. Be upstack: infrastructure, DNS, SSL, etc. Go deep on security: many concerns cut across many languages, but if you're a language/framework of the week developer, you're too busy learning the same thing over and over to have that depth, which businesses desperately need.

(I'm 40 and my current role is with a small company where I implement solutions rather than have a title)

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#94
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 37 and would rather not stick to a niche personally. Being able to quickly adapt and grow keeps the job interesting to me.

Yeah, niches don’t last in our field. Sure, become an expert in akka, kubernetes, or whatever tech is fashionable now - in 10 years it will be like you were an expert in CORBA. It’s a little annoying how you have to chase tech fashion to remain employable though. As if simply being a good engineer isn’t enough to pick up these techs and contribute meaningfully. You need to spend your free time learning the tech, or b…

Which is why one needs to sell him/herself as expert in distributed systems, databases, systems administration, ....

Meaning mastering the domain and not the tools currently being used.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#95

I'm frankly flabbergasted why silicon valley (apparently, from reading articles here) has this youth fixation. In my software dev experience the least useful people on the team have invariably been the youngest. My pet theory answer for my own question goes thusly: Young people are more easily indoctrinated / brainwashed and dominated and thats what Google and whoever really want in their employees.

This has to do with the nature of the apps. In the Valley / consumer focused apps - they are often focused on both very young target users - AND - very new frameworks and technologies. Plus they work insane hours. I worked in Software in Telecom as a young man, and I was surrounded by middle aged geniuses, I felt useless. My buddy worked at a big consulting firm doing .com stuff, he was a primary lead. So yes, it has…

Having worked at a phone company, I can tell you that as far as career longevity, those folks have us beat.

Most of the people I knew working at the telco were in their 60s and started their jobs there out of high school. They were incredible domain experts and had retired from the phone company once already _with pension_. They were all rehired and getting paid huge rates on top of their pensions and some were even going into their second retirement.

Forty plus years at one company and these people were making a fortune and their knowledge is literally irreplaceable. Some even were experts across domains because they were smart enough to just move departments when they got bored instead of entire companies.

Very stressful job though.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#96
post #70
post #7

I am 50 and I do OK. I also see people around my age and older who do well too. It seems to me that a lot of people who get filtered out in their 30s should never have been in the profession either for lack of motivation, interest or talent. If you are not self motivated to constantly evolve you have a problem. Moreso than in a lot of other professions.

What if one evolved into another career?

No problem with that. My comment was about staying relevant as a software engineer.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#98
post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

The big danger is "owning" some domain that falls out of fashion. You might "own" distributed systems and do great for a time, but then companies start transitioning from that architecture and nobody returns your calls anymore.

Also I've noticed a lot of sub-fields like computer vision or self driving cars where there's a great deal of nerd interest but very little actual employment.

In fact, I have a feeling that computer programming is the stick that's holding the entire STEM tent up---if not for programming as a consolation prize you'd have a whole lot of physics and chemical engineers making lattes at starbucks---and further that web development is the stick that's holding the programming tent up.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#99

In the general sense, this is the wrong place to ask. It's a self-selecting group in that most people over 40 here will be among the group that lasted in the career. It won't give a sense of how large that group is in the wider world, nor how many didn't stick with it. On the other hand, if you want to hear how to make it past 40 in software, this is probably an excellent place to ask!

Then let me ask: how do you make it past 40 in software? Specifically, how do you position yourself so that you are actively sought after (rather than merely employable)?

Be an ASM expert ;)

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#100
post #26

I think this bias needs to evolve, and maybe birth year is more descriptive than age. In 2000, a 40 year old was born in 1960, when the home PC was nearly 20 years off. A programmer who is 40 today was born in 1977, and they could learn to program while they were in diapers. These are very different experiences, and the bar will move over time.

Another 1977-er, but I didn't get to it until I got a second-hand C-64 in 1986.
Post reply on HN