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Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

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Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#21

Post by omegaworks »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #18
cgore wrote: post #2

I'm a white guy. I'm a software engineer. I'm totally cool with hiring people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.) It seems that Denise Young Smith understands that, but there's a weird fringe of the extreme left that only sees headcounts by color and gender, and only sees me as "a white guy", and only sees others as "an ", and it's sad that a black woman got fired for being reasonable instead of hav…

The left, outside of Silicon Valley, sees you as the enemy, the instigator of racism, sexism, and any other isms they can apply. They want you replaced with people of color and women as fast as possible. Inside of Silicon Valley, you're seen as this benevolent majority, surely appreciative of diversity, eager to break up the white privilege, and promote justice for those left behind....someday, but not today. There's…

>They want you replaced with people of color and women as fast as possible.

Stop spreading this white supremacist garbage. There is no "conspiracy to replace white people."

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#22

Post by coryl »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #20
coryl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial extortion...interesting term, haven't heard that one before.

Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? That's their bread and butter.

I suppose as the saying goes, one man's civil rights activist is another man's racial extortionist.

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#23

Post by whichdan »

cgore wrote: post #2

I'm a white guy. I'm a software engineer. I'm totally cool with hiring people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.) It seems that Denise Young Smith understands that, but there's a weird fringe of the extreme left that only sees headcounts by color and gender, and only sees me as "a white guy", and only sees others as "an ", and it's sad that a black woman got fired for being reasonable instead of hav…

"people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.)"

This sort of language is problematic and harmful in that it implies that "white guys" (not even white people, just men) by default can always "do the job," and that anyone outside of that group must be judged to some sort of different standard. It makes it challenging to talk about diversity when statements start off with racist and sexist undertones.

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#24

Post by jasode »

cgore wrote: post #2

I'm a white guy. I'm a software engineer. I'm totally cool with hiring people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.) It seems that Denise Young Smith understands that, but there's a weird fringe of the extreme left that only sees headcounts by color and gender, and only sees me as "a white guy", and only sees others as "an ", and it's sad that a black woman got fired for being reasonable instead of hav…

To use the fired Apple employees idea that diversity is multidimensional, you might have the following situations:

Group 1:

  1) white man (Democrat Stanford grad)
  2) white woman (Democrat Stanford grad)
  3) black man (Democrat Stanford grad)
Group 2:

  1) white man (Democrat Stanford grad)
  2) white man (Libertarian Kansas kid self-taught)
  3) white man (South Africa bootcamp grad)
Depending on what's important, Group 2 would be seen as "more diverse and representative" even though the skin color is all the same. In that case, diversity of thought is valued more than diversity of skin color.

If that was the idea that Denise Young Smith was trying to get across, that nuance got lost in the backlash.

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#25

Post by exabrial »

The more stuff I see like this, the more I'm convinced the only way to actually help diversity along is a free market solution. Instead of demanding quotas, just have the data available publically.

The reasons are many, but the biggest is that I feel that hiring people that are bad at their job but have some physical characteristic, will make the problem much worse in the long run by "proving the biased people right" about their biases.

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#26

Post by fosk »

whichdan wrote: post #23
cgore wrote: post #2

I'm a white guy. I'm a software engineer. I'm totally cool with hiring people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.) It seems that Denise Young Smith understands that, but there's a weird fringe of the extreme left that only sees headcounts by color and gender, and only sees me as "a white guy", and only sees others as "an ", and it's sad that a black woman got fired for being reasonable instead of hav…

"people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.)" This sort of language is problematic and harmful in that it implies that "white guys" (not even white people, just men) by default can always "do the job," and that anyone outside of that group must be judged to some sort of different standard. It makes it challenging to talk about diversity when statements start off with racist and sexist undertones.

Oh come on, you know what he meant.

This is getting to a point that even genuinely talking about it, and rightly so, risks backfiring at you because there’s always somebody willing to make 10 extra mental steps to find it offensive.

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#27

Post by BearGoesChirp »

whatyoucantsay wrote: post #19
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The far left often misses how multi-dimensional concepts like diversity or privilege are I think you are confusing the shallow tribal identity groups with weak ideological consciousness on the left with the far left; the complex multidimensional nature of diversity and privilege is pretty much the core of intersectionality, which is a pretty key concept for the left, especially (much of) the far left. Or you're tal…

I am referring to the way many on the far left speak of intersectionality as a number of diversity or victimhood points to be tallied. The truth is, like many multivariate functions, more complex. Here is an example. Being male is not a privilege for a young black man being stopped by a police officer in the United States. On the contrary, it greatly increases the odds he will soon be unjustly killed. Similarly, bein…

Most intersectionality can be seen as simplistic statistical modeling that has flaws (such as male not being a benefit whenever the legal system is involved). I don't actually think the theory is wrong, but I do think the current models are way too simple and more often than not picked not for their correctness but their usefulness in achieving political goals.

Re: Apple’s diversity chief out after outcry

#28

Post by napa15 »

jasode wrote: post #24
cgore wrote: post #2

I'm a white guy. I'm a software engineer. I'm totally cool with hiring people who aren't white guys (assuming they can do the job.) It seems that Denise Young Smith understands that, but there's a weird fringe of the extreme left that only sees headcounts by color and gender, and only sees me as "a white guy", and only sees others as "an ", and it's sad that a black woman got fired for being reasonable instead of hav…

To use the fired Apple employees idea that diversity is multidimensional , you might have the following situations: Group 1: 1) white man (Democrat Stanford grad) 2) white woman (Democrat Stanford grad) 3) black man (Democrat Stanford grad) Group 2: 1) white man (Democrat Stanford grad) 2) white man (Libertarian Kansas kid self-taught) 3) white man (South Africa bootcamp grad) Depending on what's important, Group 2 w…

I honestly dont think anybody didnt understand what she meant, it's quite obvious. It's just that people are openly racist nowadays, looking only at skin color.
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