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Tesla Roadster

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461–470 of 729 posts

Re: Tesla Roadster

#461
post #17

The Tesla roadster specs are insane! No exotic carmaker will be able to match it (taking price as a consideration). (no Ferrari, or Lambo, can get that close. This is Formula 1 acceleration speeds). Plus 620 miles of range, and it is a 4 seater. Expensive as hell, but this is exotic car territory. Base Specs Acceleration 0-60 mph1.9 sec Acceleration 0-100 mph4.2 sec Acceleration 1/4 mile8.8 sec Top SpeedOver 250 mph…

specs insane, but the car doesnt exist anyway, who cares, it's not something people would buy

Re: Tesla Roadster

#462
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I think this is another case of "well it works on our computer" pre-release specs that will turn out not to get close to real-world performance. The 0-100mph is very suspicious but I think the 0-60 time quoted is simply impossible for a road car, even making allowances for a few years of tech advancements. F1 tires are nothing like road tires. They're not even vaguely comparable - at normal operating tempera…

What is the best 60-to-0 time for a road car? If traction is the limiting factor, you should be able to get very close to that same time in the reverse direction. Edit: the shortest 60-to-0 braking distance I find claimed is for a Dodge Viper ACR (Mk 5) at 87 feet. Assuming constant acceleration, that works out to 1.98 seconds. [1] http://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-quickest-stoppers-60mph

There's an Engineering Explained video that takes this approach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAvIVGGhEis

They estimate 2.0s is roughly the limit on standard tires, F1 cars can do it faster due to stickier tires.

He also has a video about Tesla acceleration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVGsWvRa1XA

Which talks about whether the Model S has an advantage over the (old) Roadster due to the heavier vehicle gripping better.

Interestingly the number he calculates for a theoretical roadster car is very close to Tesla's new number.

They also have a video about "rollout" which can alter 0-60 times and needs to be taken into account for comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAvIVGGhEis

Re: Tesla Roadster

#463
post #143

Tesla can barely ship the Model 3, and now they're adding yet another consumer vehicle to the lineup? Tesla's vision is completely scattered. I have little faith in them at this time since they can't deliver the "economy" Model 3, but now suddenly have the bandwidth to develop, engineer, ship, and maintain yet another car? Tesla, ship the Model 3 at scale and then we'll talk.

This car will bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in preorders immediately, and cost much less than that for them to produce when they get around to it over two years from now. That doesn't seem like a good idea to you? If Model 3 isn't in full production by 2020 then the company will no longer exist anyway.

>and cost much less than that for them to produce when they get around to it over two years from now

And what do you base this prognostication on? Tesla has been building cars for a few years, and loses money on them.

And don't give me "R&D". You can back it out of their financials and it's still rough, and it will never go to zero; just look at the other majors.

All this stuff is cool, but will it ever make money?

Re: Tesla Roadster

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I think this is another case of "well it works on our computer" pre-release specs that will turn out not to get close to real-world performance. The 0-100mph is very suspicious but I think the 0-60 time quoted is simply impossible for a road car, even making allowances for a few years of tech advancements. F1 tires are nothing like road tires. They're not even vaguely comparable - at normal operating tempera…

> F1 tires are nothing like road tires. Agreed, but they don't need to be. Remember, the magic number here is ~1.4G, for a 1.9s 0-60. The Pilot Sport Cup 2 – a track-friendly R-compound tire used in the webcast car and in the videos – can pull close to that on a skidpad (i.e. less than optimal conditions), meaning the grip is there. > I think it's straining credulity to believe that an electronic traction control sys…

> Agreed, but they don't need to be. Remember, the magic number here is ~1.4G, for a 1.9s 0-60. The Pilot Sport Cup 2 – a track-friendly R-compound tire used in the webcast car and in the videos – can pull close to that on a skidpad (i.e. less than optimal conditions), meaning the grip is there.

That's lateral grip, which isn't the same at all. Longitudinal grip, which is what's important here, is very different. There's a lot of clever things you can do to increase lateral grip, such as wheel camber, that don't really apply to purely longitudinal grip, so I'm not sure this is valid.

> I also suspect that the Roadster has active damping – another technology disallowed in F1 – meaning that the duration of contact with the road can be maximized. This is important if the road surface isn't glassy-smooth.

But it has to have (comparatively) extremely soft road-going suspension. I really doubt that no matter how smart the active damping is that it will compare with race springs and dampers. Le Mans cars have all these active damping tricks, traction control, along with slick tires, low weight, very high power:weight ratios, skilled drivers, etc, etc, etc and they still don't get to 60 that quick.

That's an excellent example actually - the Porsche 919 Hybrid LMP1 car has a 0-60 of 2.2 seconds, despite electric power, FAR less weight, FAR better tires and drivetrain [0]. There is just no way you can make a road car that's faster than an LMP1 hybrid. If you can, maybe you can put a roll-cage in and take it to Le Mans.... but I doubt it.

> That doesn't help it at all in cornering, but in a straight line, the increased weight of the car will help it launch even better since it'll increase the traction on the drive wheels (equivalent to downforce at speed).

Weight increases the grip, but it also increases the amount of grip you need - you need more power to maintain the same acceleration, and this power needs to be transferred to the road. I'm not an expert, but AIUI, increased grip due to weight scales linearly, whereas the increase in power required (and thus the increase in grip required) scales geometrically, thus weight is counterproductive in getting you to 60mph faster. I could be wrong about this though - as always I'd be happy to be corrected by someone with more knowledge!

0: https://www.porsche.com/usa/eventsandracing/motorsport/works...

Re: Tesla Roadster

#465
post #246
post #23

Does this mean that Tesla is pivoting from their attempt to produce a medium-priced car in quantity and going back to hand-building high-end cars? Tesla is good at high-end, low volume products. But the Model 3 production fiasco shows they don't know how to do what Detroit and Wolfsburg and Toyota City do. This is in a way a step backwards. Tesla is going back to targeting the 1%. There are lots of little supercar co…

> But the Model 3 production fiasco shows they don't know how to do what Detroit and Wolfsburg and Toyota City do. What fiasco? It was obvious from the start that their schedule was wildly optimistic. But that's probably just Elons way of pushing workers as hard as possible. It's way too early to call the Model 3 a success or failure. Of course it takes a few months to ramp up and stabilize production. It's their fir…

There is a narrative in the business world that TSLA doesn't know what its doing. They are taking a three month delay to its first mass market car as an opportunity to push that. Anyone who has done anything of significance knows that this would be considered wildly successful if they can keep to just a three month delay.

Re: Tesla Roadster

#466
post #398
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's that obvious, how come Tesla didn't know that? Contending that Tesla is incapable of comprehending basic, obvious facts isn't a great way to promote confidence in the company. We're a long way from fiasco territory, sure, but it's also pretty clear Tesla are still quite a way off from getting their production process under control.

Given how many people are involved, I‘m pretty sure they have considered a lot of the problems they have now, beforehand. I mean, do you think they don’t have a time range of best case through worst case? Elon just constantly tells us the best case, or almost best case version.

The biggest criticism from industry analyst is that they don't consider all the problems before hand, and they were proven right.

Your explanation is laughable when applying it to other companies.

"Oh sorry, your iPhone X is delayed till next year. We just gave you the best case timeline. You knew that right?"

Re: Tesla Roadster

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota owns Lexus, Ford had Jaguar and Land Rover, Hyundai owns Genesis, Volkswagon has Bentley, Fiat owns Ferrari. Just like other car manufacturers, Tesla does it all. edit: Ford didn't start Jaguar.

I don't think (although it's complicated), Fiat still owns Ferrari?

I think not. They still have the same (biggest) ownership, but they are not the same company. FCA still owns Lamborghini, though.

Re: Tesla Roadster

#468
post #318

There has got to be an astroturfing campaign going on here, or the HN crowd is a lot more naive than I thought. Seriously, no one is concerned that Tesla is announcing, not one, but two new products, while they are failing to deliver on all three they are currently producing (in terms of production ramp-up)? What matters more than anything to Tesla is production at scale, but they are busy promising ever more fantast…

Elon Musk is an engineer. If his production line isn't as efficient as it should be it will get fixed 'scientifically'. I'd agree with you if his background was different.

>Elon Musk is an engineer. If his production line isn't as efficient as it should be it will get fixed 'scientifically'. I'd agree with you if his background was different.

I forgot that Elon Musk is single handedly changing the way assembly line engineering is done...

How about a little respect to the thousands of capable engineers working for every other car company-- building stuff, innovating and making money.

Also, what is with calling people who aren't engineers "engineers"?

Re: Tesla Roadster

#469
post #365
post #17

The Tesla roadster specs are insane! No exotic carmaker will be able to match it (taking price as a consideration). (no Ferrari, or Lambo, can get that close. This is Formula 1 acceleration speeds). Plus 620 miles of range, and it is a 4 seater. Expensive as hell, but this is exotic car territory. Base Specs Acceleration 0-60 mph1.9 sec Acceleration 0-100 mph4.2 sec Acceleration 1/4 mile8.8 sec Top SpeedOver 250 mph…

Sounds really good on paper but the production is scheduled for 2020, so it’s unfair to compare it to the cars currently on the market. No other manufacturers announce cars so far ahead so it seems at least partly like a hype for Tesla investors. Acceleration is just one part of what makes a great sports car. And how is the acceleration past 100 mph? That’s the traditional weakness of electric cars and it matters mor…

“Production is scheduled for 2020”.

And delivery will be in 2025.

Knowing how bad Tesla is with keeping their schedule

Re: Tesla Roadster

#470
post #17

The Tesla roadster specs are insane! No exotic carmaker will be able to match it (taking price as a consideration). (no Ferrari, or Lambo, can get that close. This is Formula 1 acceleration speeds). Plus 620 miles of range, and it is a 4 seater. Expensive as hell, but this is exotic car territory. Base Specs Acceleration 0-60 mph1.9 sec Acceleration 0-100 mph4.2 sec Acceleration 1/4 mile8.8 sec Top SpeedOver 250 mph…

I doubt these high-end manufacturers will let this unanswered until 2020.

for most, the powerpoint is as good as a car in hand

this guy is just collecting money on Kickstarter. Nobody needs this car and nobody really wants to make it. Will they have to?

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