If you distribute the scraping load to a browser plugin you could probably avoid the tos violation. And aren't there apis that would give you this data, I love counter gaming tech like this. I hope you rebrand and keep going.
Southwest Airlines is intimidating our startup
71–76 of 76 posts
Re: Southwest Airlines is intimidating our startup
#72"Everyone has a right to access public data. And we believe that whether you are accessing that data by typing in a URL in a web browser, through a CURL request, an RSS feed, a cached copy, or having someone read it to you aloud, does not change your right to access public data. " I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I believe this is, sadly, dead wrong. The infamous Computer Fraud and Abuse Act contai…
The law is often wrong and written by the more fortunate in society.
The data is publicly available. The reasons this should not be an issue are self evident.
Google scrapes trillions of sites every second of every day. Where's the outrage in that sir? Or the legalities. Oh right the law doesn't apply to them. Just small indie devs.
I don't hide behind legal speak and lawyers. I stand behind the truth of the matter. I'd say any legal argument against non-malicious scraping is dead wrong on moral and ethical grounds. Lawyers and powerful corporations will always try to stamp out the little guy to protect their precious trademark or data because their intellects are too dull and mediocre to compete with new entrants or innovations, so they call and cry about it to their lawyer instead. It's easier.
Re: Southwest Airlines is intimidating our startup
#73So, the Southwest TOS state that you can't scrape or programmatically access their data. Isn't that the end of the argument unless they find a way to manually access it for customers?
Is visiting a website now some sort of contract? I have no contractual relationship with Southwest, what do I care for their TOS? In the EU all TOS are basically just a reiteration of standard consumer law, you can put into yours whatever you want but none of that nonsense survives a legal challenge.
Thank you. Well said. I'm not sure why you're getting down voted.
People think that lawyers and terms can control all aspects of life. It's beyond ridiculous that a TOS that most college graduates couldn't understand is legally binding for every word in the contract. I mean shit you can put just about anything in your terms and who knows there might be a lawyer good enough and a judge stupid enough to enforce it.
It's only ok if you're a big corporation like google. Indie devs have to go play in our little sandbox and be careful not to piss of the big boys.
Re: Southwest Airlines is intimidating our startup
#74"The problem I see with their argument is that they are making this information public." I love this idea! However, I think that unfortunately this argument doesn't hold up, and wouldn't in court. The information is available via their site, but that does not make it public.
Says who? Them? Right.
If the info is on the web it's available to be consumed by humans or robots in a polite manner.
Data wants to be free.
Them trying to enforce their terms is another matter. Maybe it would hold up in court. Stupider things have. I mean they should start telling us how to breathe air next. Because ya know if it's in your terms then it must be legally binding.
Re: Southwest Airlines is intimidating our startup
#75Lost faith in the crowd here after reading these comments, against web scraping. Isn't this HACKERnews!? This is the same witch hunt mentality that ultimately lead to the prosecution of Aaron Swartz and look how that turned out.
The anti-scrapers: You should all be ashamed of yourselves. Where's that spirit of innovation and naughty-ness that PG always talks about in his posts?
Re: Southwest Airlines is intimidating our startup
#76"Everyone has a right to access public data. And we believe that whether you are accessing that data by typing in a URL in a web browser, through a CURL request, an RSS feed, a cached copy, or having someone read it to you aloud, does not change your right to access public data. " I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I believe this is, sadly, dead wrong. The infamous Computer Fraud and Abuse Act contai…
The law is often wrong and written by the more fortunate in society. The data is publicly available. The reasons this should not be an issue are self evident. Google scrapes trillions of sites every second of every day. Where's the outrage in that sir? Or the legalities. Oh right the law doesn't apply to them. Just small indie devs. I don't hide behind legal speak and lawyers. I stand behind the truth of the matter.…
Ya, I think the site should be perfectly legal (at least in terms of the scraping).
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure if you demand Google to stop indexing your site, it will comply. With robots.txt you can even ask them in an automated fashion.
"Legal speak and lawyers" are how we hold our society together in a relatively peaceful and just fashion. Yes, we end up with bad laws, like CFAA, and some days I think the U.S. will just collapse in on itself. But it beats all the alternatives that have been seriously tried. Please remember, lawyers not only try and enforce the CFAA, but are the ones challenging it as well!
PS Also I think this provision of CFAA is already being rolled back - though I assume there will be appeals - https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/court-rejects-li...