Live data from Hacker News

On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

iasc-culture.org

271–280 of 350 posts

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#271
post #267
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I didn't create the mother example but it's the same with the slaver holder. Even with a non-racist intent, supporting and participating in a racist system is still racist - no matter the justification or motivations. I think you are defining racism so narrowly it only defines people who state "I'm superior to this race" where their actions alone can never be racist unless they say that. I already replied to the torn…

[deleted]

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy into this big-R, little-r racism but "well if they'd just work harder, or get a better job," and "they" refers to black people, that's racism. > Racism is very much a matter of intent. No. Unconscious bias, which by definition does not include intent, can still be a form of racism. I do agree that sometimes other forms of bias or prejudice is taken for racism. Many times it's a class issue; many richer pe…

> Unconscious bias, which by definition does not include intent, can still be a form of racism. I think there's little utility to this version of racism outside of discussions about sociology. In particular, there's no real way to show someone is not racist given this definition. So if someone was determined to be unconsciously racist, there's nothing really to do be done about it since there's no way to get a "clean…

Ah, but there is something that can be done. When one is made aware of their unconscious biases, they can make conscious decisions to counteract them.

The point is not to label people as racist, but thoughts, beliefs, and actions as racist.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which is not merely the left-wing view, but the consensus academic view This follows only because academics (in relevant fields) are a strict subset of the left-wing (and generally the extreme left wing), and the relevant fields are in the middle of a reproducibility crisis largely due to their political confirmation bias. These fields are very open about their commitment to activism over objectivity (and many in t…

> the relevant fields are in the middle of a reproducibility crisis largely due to their political confirmation bias. As someone who works very closely with academics (specifically sociologists), I would love to see some evidence for this baseless mud-slinging. All of science is having a reproducibility crisis Do you have a knowledge of the field? Or do you just disagree with their conclusions? I would be happy to be…

You’re right. Which isn’t to say sociology isn’t a hostile environment for anyone who isn’t avowedly left wing, or that sociologists (or social psychologists, or anthropologists) don’t discriminate against people they know are right wing. But nothing I’ve read suggests that politics before truth is the majority position in sociology. It’s clearly a position, and not a fringe one, but it’s weaker than in the 60’s. Cultural anthropology is a writeoff though.

I would hope the social sciences are leading the charge on reproducibility. If you want to learn more on that topic read Andrew Gelman’s blog.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that there is a reason there weren't people outside of your community/culture. Looks at maps used for redlining https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/redlining/#loc=5/37.510/-9... and tell me you don't see a concentration of them in the midwest. These policies were effective during a timeline that would strongly influence and limit the diversity you saw growing up. Cultural conditions created an environment t…

You are not comprehending the facts behind what the poster is saying. There are large parts of the midwest that were settled almost exclusively by communities of central and eastern European settlers in the late 19th century. These communities are culturally homogeneous because it was virgin agricultural country before these groups of immigrants settled there. No one else has ever tried to move into these areas, larg…

Well, I think both sides of this conversation talk past each other a bit.

What you're saying is true.

But it's also the case that some those homogenous, snow white communities worry about jihad, even though there aren't any Muslims within a hundred mile radius of their house.

And it's especially true that when these small, homogenous communities diversify -- due to refugee placement or just economic growth and sprawl -- the latent racism becomes not-so-latent.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with this. My personal way of saying this is "we all do racist things, but very few of us are racist." Very often the most pragmatic choice in a situation also happens to be racist. Just own the racist things you do, and try to change the world for the better so you are no longer pushed into doing racist things.

> we all do racist things, but very few of us are racist That's confusing because you're using two different definitions of the word "racist" in the same sentence. At some point we should do everyone a favor and use two words when we mean two things.

They’re the same word describing different things. Many white people are aghast at being accused of doing something racist because it implies that they themselves are racist. It shouldn’t, and it hampers the conversation to imply it does (the same logic can be applied to sexism and most other isms as well).

Not saying there aren’t racists out there (lol tiki torches), but most people don’t fall into that category.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One -27F January day, I looked at my wife and said, “this is America, and we don’t have to live like this.” So we moved to North Carolina, then eventually got a gig with Microsoft. Haven’t worked at Microsoft in twelve years, but Seattle area suits us so we never left. Also I can empathize why people are against Tesla, it's just the general mindset in the midwest when it comes to new technologies. More than just the…

When it is -27F outside, what do you do? Do you go to work? Do you crank up the furnace and huddle under an electric blanket and wait for it to get above 0F again?

You do the midwest thing: just go about your business and pretend everything is fine.

You warm up your car 20 minutes before leaving. You throw on your layers that are reserved for the negative double digits (flannel jeans, extra thick wool socks, fur hats, massive scarf, thick mittens), check that the emergency kit and blankets are still in the back seat, and head out into the world and go about your day. In the city it isn't all that big of a deal, but it could mean danger if you get stranded in the countryside.

One of my favorite things about the super cold is how warm the house parties and social gatherings can get. It's so cold that you can't be outside for more than a few minutes at a time, so it really feels like an accomplishment when you make it to a friends house or a blizzard happy hour (that is, if it isnt too cold for snow).

Also the blue skies are amazing. The sundogs can be downright surreal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#277
post #7

> In a 2015 essay for Slate, “The Rust-Belt Theory of Low-Cost High Culture,” reporter Alec McGillis marveled at the cheapness—and, it seems, the mere presence—of good orchestra and museum tickets in interior cities: One fact of history that’s often overlooked is that patronage has left an incredible legacy in places like Cleveland, Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, etc. For example, one of the finest collections of…

Another thing that's often overlooked is that those cities are still quite large when defined by their MSAs. When the people "left" places like Detroit, they didn't all go to a different region; they went a few miles from "Detroit" to the Detroit suburbs, which we consider to be different cities mostly for irrelevant historical reasons.

Detroit (14), St. Louis (20), Pittsburgh (26), and Cincinnati (28) are all still in the top 30 metropolitan areas. Even Buffalo -- the smallest on your list -- is today the country's 50th largest MSA.

Detroit is twice as large as much hipper (and vastly more talked about) places like Austin (31) and Portland (25). St. Louis is quite a bit bigger than both of those, as well.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#278
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

How is this any different than employers prioritizing hiring from Ivy League schools?

Those schools are mostly made up of upper class kids, who are...mostly white. So then Silicon Valley is just as racist as the Midwest by your own standards, no?

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern left-wing view of racism is as a systematic, structural power relationship between races. Individual decisions branching on skin color is neither necessary nor sufficient to get there, although it can and historically has contributed. For example, divesting from your neighborhood out of concern for your property value when PoC start to move in does not necessarily reflect an individual racial bias. It coul…

The modern left-wing view of racism is as a systematic, structural power relationship between races So in other words, it's pretty much Marxism. Just s/races/classes/.

That's about as true as saying the “spiritual battle” school of Christianity is Marxism, just s/orientation wrt God/class.

Belief in the existence of a fundamental conflict in some area is far from enough to make something meaningfully analogous to Marxism.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#280
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This nerd doesn't know shit While you probably have a point, this isn't a very professional or productive way of expressing your opinion. edit: To those downvoting me, can you please explain why? Is "This nerd doesn't know shit" really the kind of dialog that we want to promote on this site?

I didn't downvote you, but calling him out on his language is significantly less interesting than the thing the parent said. If your quote was the only thing he said you'd be right. I think the quote added a lot of context and information his message though. > born and raised in michigan, lived all over the state. I hope i die here. That statement on its own communicates he likes Michigan, has no interest in moving.…

> We can nitpick the insult on the end or the language he used, but I think what he had to say about Michigan was "putting himself out there" a little bit that makes it harder to do.

I didn't say he was trolling. In fact, I said "While you probably have a point," emphasizing the fact that there may be a substantive post within the comment.

However, it says in the Hacker News Guidelines[1], "Don't be snarky. Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." His comment contained too much snark and not enough civility to be a productive post. If those kinds of comments are left to multiply, this site may lose its capacity for substantive, nuanced discussion of topics that many people disagree with.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Post reply on HN