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Learn just enough Linux to get things done

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Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#91

Mentioning strace in an article titled "Learn just enough Linux to get things done" seems so out of place as to be absurd, even in an "Advanced" section. Anyone who needs the rest of this advice is going to be absolutely baffled by strace. Otherwise, decent little primer.

I've been a linux user for almost eleven years now, and a professional software developer for four, and I wasn't even aware that strace existed until just now.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#92
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, software development on Unix was so natural and enjoyable, even today half the time building a Linux library or app is typically spent in byzantine shell scripts trying to determine which particular occult incantation of incompatible or broken Unix you are not running and throwing various test programs at your compiler that last made sense in 1995. The true essence of delightful and plain right software develop…

>The true essence of delightful and plain right software development must be over in OpenBSD land, where they run the one and only gcc 4.2.1 Clang actually.

That's what it says in the marketing material, then you look inside and there it is, the ancient gcc the guys with the claim on most free license can't update because of it's .. licensing.

If it was only an exercise in self-flagellation, sure whatever, but no, their tears flow upstream when stuff 99% of the population uses on Linux inevitably breaks with their bastardized gcc.

(This is very obvious if you consider that no, they don't have an LLVM backend for the alpha)

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And git does work on Windows. There's even a windows logo on the official download page. https://www.git-scm.com/downloads

Git for Windows relies pretty heavily on MinGW, though. And it's best used from the included bash shell.

Why is git so heavily "posix-y" in a way that e.g. svn is not?

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#94
post #33

Great list for starters. But getting real work done requires much more. Having just walked through some basic steps with a novice, I can concur, modern linux is impossible without "recipes". Just setting up a hello world web app can involve: ssh login to running instance, using curl to download the gcloud sdk, tar to unpack, sudo to install, systemctl to start local processes, useradd dedicated www, chmod and chroot…

Disagree! I'm normally all for easier entry points, but ssh login to running instance using curl to download the gcloud sdk tar to unpack sudo to install systemctl to start local processes useradd dedicated www chmod and chroot to allow access rsync to tranfer files are absolute basics of system administration. People who cannot even handle those tasks should not use a root server for their project. There are alterna…

Someone who doesn't know how to do those things probably shouldn't be administering an important server themselves, agreed. But there's still a lot to be said for putting up a Hello World webpage locally, or making minor tweaks on a system formally run by a sysadmin.

My concern would mostly be that the list above is unacceptable for learning, not for usability. That's ~8 different tools to learn from scratch, totally independent of the underlying project.

And sure, most devs will eventually know all of those tools (or equivalents) without much conscious effort. But there's a lot to be said for scripted introductions to complex systems.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#95

Great list for starters. But getting real work done requires much more. Having just walked through some basic steps with a novice, I can concur, modern linux is impossible without "recipes". Just setting up a hello world web app can involve: ssh login to running instance, using curl to download the gcloud sdk, tar to unpack, sudo to install, systemctl to start local processes, useradd dedicated www, chmod and chroot…

>> For beginners, without a trusted hand to guide them, its beyond intimidating. These systems must become more accessible to the average human. I cringe at thinking about what a newbie has to go through. Install the right version of php/python etc on your platform Install a virtual environment Install a package manager Install a framework Install a database

I think about this every time I have to set up a new environment myself. Getting from "fresh machine" to "clean build" can be a full day of work for very experienced devs if they're joining a long-lived project.

Setting up novices to start their work with an arcane and difficult step is unfortunate even if it is unavoidable.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#96
post #91

Mentioning strace in an article titled "Learn just enough Linux to get things done" seems so out of place as to be absurd, even in an "Advanced" section. Anyone who needs the rest of this advice is going to be absolutely baffled by strace. Otherwise, decent little primer.

I've been a linux user for almost eleven years now, and a professional software developer for four, and I wasn't even aware that strace existed until just now.

I've been tinkering on Linux as a hobby for about 2 years now and was made aware of strace a couple of months after starting to dig a bit deeper. You make me hopeful of my future employment.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#97
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people assume they should RTM and if memory serves me right it is a whole lot more confusing than your post :-)

Doesn't look any more complex than most man pages: https://linux.die.net/man/1/tar

I'd love to get a man page like that but all too often they don't list examples near the top like that. If I open the tar man page for cygwin (probably an older one) I get a bunch of stuff about unix style and gnu style usage, then some irrelevant notes (where the full manual is), then a long winded description about how "tar -xvf" is the same as "tar -x -v -f", then the full descriptions of each option.

It sounds like this project moved in the right direction and made the man page more efficient than googling, but many others haven't.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#98
post #37

This is not a surprise - the Windows ecosystem simply wasn't designed with software development in mind. Aha? What is C# and Visual Studio? Or .NET? Was Linux designed for software development? This article is so bad, I'm really getting mad over here. Stop publishing such crap, you feed a lot of people's resentment against all those hipster developers who don't want to learn by RTFM, but want to have handled everythi…

Linux will never be more approachable to non-techies. It’s an operating designed by and for developers. It’s brilliant at that. The push to make it palatable for everyone was always political and centered around its free software license, not about any technical suitability for it.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a linux user for almost eleven years now, and a professional software developer for four, and I wasn't even aware that strace existed until just now.

I've been tinkering on Linux as a hobby for about 2 years now and was made aware of strace a couple of months after starting to dig a bit deeper. You make me hopeful of my future employment.

I’m 100% telling the truth when I say I got a job as a Linux sys admin at a massive tech company on the basis of knowing a little bit of bash scripting. And this wasn’t even that long ago. Learn some devops stuff and you’re golden.

Re: Learn just enough Linux to get things done

#100
post #91

Mentioning strace in an article titled "Learn just enough Linux to get things done" seems so out of place as to be absurd, even in an "Advanced" section. Anyone who needs the rest of this advice is going to be absolutely baffled by strace. Otherwise, decent little primer.

I've been a linux user for almost eleven years now, and a professional software developer for four, and I wasn't even aware that strace existed until just now.

I assume you haven't been done much development in C, C++ or something similar then.

Because if you had, I don't know how you could not know that strace existed. Maybe you wouldn't know how to use it, but I don't see how you could be unaware of its existence if you are familiar at all with linux dev tools.

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