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On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

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171–180 of 350 posts

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#171
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

>Does anyone have suggestions on how to fix this? One option would be to have the cultures integrate so there are not sub communities for PoC. I find it a bit insane that people think that this is even something that needs to be fixed - why can't different ethnic groups live among themselves, instead of being required to lose their ethnic identity and become part of the larger group? Do you seriously think that's wha…

Why does living next to someone else destroy an ethnic identity? Does a chinese family moving into an italian neighborhood all of a sudden mean that no one can open an italian restaurant? If there is a German festival one weekend, does that mean they can't have a Scottish highland festival the next weekend in the same venue? Does a Russian family moving in next door mean that I have to start drinking Vodka instead of Rum?

No, of course not ... all of those are ridiculous statements, because the truth is that the only reason you would not want to live near someone else, is because you (not you personally, in the general sense) don't like that someone else.

Clamoring on about "maintaining your ethnic identity" is just a dogwhistle ... and masks the true underlying racist/xenophobic underpinnings of that person's mindset.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#173
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you make an interesting observation about how communities are structured here, but there is also plenty of overt (though quiet) racism.

What things are happening in the Midwest that you consider overt racism?

Once, when visiting my father's extended family in Missouri, an older man killed the dinner conversation stone dead by suggesting that the police should have just killed that ------ Rodney King. That remains the most racist thing I have ever personally witnessed.

My spouse's family in Wisconsin is more racist than my family in Indiana, disguising it somewhat by talking about "the chodnies" (derived from the Polish czarny). And my sister-in-law's husband puts the most obnoxious crap out on Facebook and Twitter. It isn't exactly "we're glad that black kid is dead", but rather "we support the police; hero hero, protect and serve, rah rah rah!" which is implicitly the same thing, when the cops seem to hardly ever kill any white people while they're out gunning down members of the community and their dogs.

There's a reason why Wisconsin instituted citizen review boards. "We investigated ourselves and cleared ourselves of all wrongdoing" works great for the cops when everyone on the local force is racist, but not so much for minorities. The hand that Black Lives Matter claps against is racism in police forces, and racism-by-proxy by refusing to hold the cops accountable for it.

It isn't always orthodox color-based racism, either. It's more like identity-based tribalism. The different "black" cliques didn't always get along at my high school. For instance, one calls the other "stuck-up boujie", and the other responds "thugs and chickenheads". They would definitely use that unmentionable slur on each other. The Jews would often hang out together because they already knew each other from Saturday School, and anti-Semitism is still a thing in the Midwest. I'd occasionally hear about fights that started with racial slurs, but never actually saw one. One of my friends got called "chink" sometimes.

What I saw from where I sat was hostile enough, and I suspect it was probably worse in the places I was not.

Mainly, you hang out in your own groups, and avoid those that don't like you. That keeps your group somewhat homogenous, which may coincidentally make it look like your group is racist. And that might be true, but a lot of it is surrounding yourself with people who think and act like you, and not just people that look like you. In my groups, racism was not part of the group identity, and the racism that occurred elsewhere was simply ignored whenever possible. All that mattered was that it didn't happen among ourselves. If it happened to one of us elsewhere, that was awful and pitiable, but the best we could do was to not add to it. It's a sort of head-in-the-sand approach, which works for a lot of social problems in the Midwest. If you pretend it isn't happening, it's only a problem for the people it's happening to.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#174
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

I'm an ex-midwesterner living in Seattle. The midwest is not a place where you really strike it rich. It's a place where you have a shot of having a good family arrangement. You can easily surround yourself with relatives, and other folks like you. You're rarely forced into considering other points of view. There's a really strong sense of "being in your place" there, in many ways. I think the folks with a genuine cu…

You'll still find a much stronger sense of liberal values in the metropolitan cities vs rural in the midwest.

E.g. While Trump won the state of Nebraska, Hillary did win the counties of Douglas and Lancaster, the two counties that house the two largest cities in the state (Omaha 446K, Lincoln 280K).

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#175
post #129
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

How about not treating people differently based on which community they come from?

This will never happen en masse. Humans are tribal animals, and naturally form us-vs-them mentalities when under the slightest amount of stress.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#176
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

I grew up in South Africa from 87-92, I have lived in Detroit since 2011. In terms of this being an impossible situation, I think truth and reconciliation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_reconciliation_commi...) might be one way of addressing the racial segregation that persists here. (https://demographics.virginia.edu/DotMap/index.html). At the very least I was surprised and glad to see a comment about the racism that the article elucidates at the top here on HN.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is that growing up there simply _weren't_ people outside my community/culture. It was much less about systematic racism and much more about who chose to immigrate to specific regions in the late 19th century. What you're talking about are things that happened in larger cities, but that's not the whole world and that doesn't match the history of much of the midwest. The parent was right, if there i…

The absence of other people outside your community was not an accident. Members of the government, of financial institutions and urban planning departments made deliberate choices to exclude certain types of people: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-cas... https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history...

Once again, you just don't have the context to be making that argument.

One article is about the south and the other one is about racist policies in the 30's. In the 30's there were essentially no people to be racist against in my community.

You're talking about urban planning departments, the concept is ludicrous in my home town which you could walk across in an hour surrounded by towns which you could walk across before finishing a sandwich.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#178

Nice read! My wife and I just moved to Urbana/Champaign Illinois 4 months ago for my new job, and the Midwest really is different (from Arizona and California where we lived before). People are really nice, food is great, very inexpensive place to live, and there is real natural beauty here if you look for it. Anyways, we are delighted with this area.

Whenever we drive nearby, the spouse and I wonder if the people from Normal are really just a bunch of freaks, and they just named the city that as a ruse. Obviously, all the "normal" people must therefore live in Bloomington.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#179
post #167
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impact is the important part of racism, not intent. You can have the best intentions and still be racist.

[deleted]

Say you're a nice, white mother in the 1950s, and the subject of desegregation comes up. You have no problem with black people, but you don't think the disruption would be good for your daughter's educational experience, so you favor maintaining segregation. You can say, 'I'm not racist. I'm just thinking of my daughter,' but guess what? The Poc negatively impacted by your stance don't give two shits, and they shouldn't. It's racist.

Of course, we don't have to go back in time at all to see this sort of thinking, but, for the sake of the example, I thought it worked better.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#180

born and raised in michigan, lived all over the state. I hope i die here. This nerd doesn't know shit

> This nerd doesn't know shit While you probably have a point, this isn't a very professional or productive way of expressing your opinion. edit: To those downvoting me, can you please explain why? Is "This nerd doesn't know shit" really the kind of dialog that we want to promote on this site?

I didn't downvote you, but calling him out on his language is significantly less interesting than the thing the parent said. If your quote was the only thing he said you'd be right. I think the quote added a lot of context and information his message though.

> born and raised in michigan, lived all over the state. I hope i die here.

That statement on its own communicates he likes Michigan, has no interest in moving.

> This nerd doesn't know shit

Adding this sentence modifies my interpretation of the first. This guy _loves_ Michigan. He feels strongly about his community and the contents of the article offend him. We can nitpick the insult on the end or the language he used, but I think what he had to say about Michigan was "putting himself out there" a little bit that makes it harder to do. It didn't feel like trolling to me, felt like a genuine dude with genuine things to say.

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