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On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

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Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#151

Just moved out of the midwest.. I was originally from the East coast and moved back. I'll just say this, being a minority, I was shocked at how much contempt people had towards middle-easterners and black people. On numerous occasions people have said they've been "dirtying up the neighborhoods which is why they moved to another burb... they need to take better care of their lawns, etc". Out of all the companies that…

> There's a reason why Chicago was the only major city to drop in population the last couple of years.

It's because it's a shithole. Expensive, but salaries are midwest-grade; weather sucks almost year-round; the government is as corrupt as a two headed snake; one of the most segregated cities in the world; and has a huge violent crime problem.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#152
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still common for people of color to not be shown properties that are shown to white people by landlords, real estate brokers, etc. Sometimes it's unequivocal (i.e. lying about what's available), sometimes it's softer, e.g. making assumptions about ability to pay, or "culture fit" (on behalf of the PoC or potential neighbors). > Do you see any problem with race blind admissions and race blind aid? That way everyo…

I'm not sure how you made the jump from race-blind admission to need-blind... I agree that more would need to be done than just saying "anyone can apply" but I don't think that the University should be doing most of the work, I think that we should work in the communities that need help to improve education so that more people are encouraged to apply and those that apply are more qualified. >you don't just pick the "…

> I'm not sure how you made the jump from race-blind admission to need-blind...

That was in response to you mentioning race blind aid. Need-blind admission helps combat the affordability problem that's more likely to affect people of color. If you're saying there shouldn't be scholarships exclusively for black people or some other group, I disagree but those make up a trivial amount of the aid available.

The biases baked into school systems are a bigger problem but there universities don't have a wait a generation for someone else. It's not about admitting unqualified students, universities shouldn't and I believe generally don't admit unqualified students (when they do, I suspect it's more for legacies than people of color). Part of what a university can do is recognize that a student who's the first in their family to go to college or who didn't go to a preparatory high school may not come in with knowledge and skills that will help them succeed; matters that are not taught in any classroom. There are white students with those needs as well and who should get such help, but they're less common.

> some people will hear "We should pick PoC over more qualified white people."

Tough, sometimes that's the way it's going to look if all you're looking at it grades and standardized tests; that's the basis for a lawsuit on behalf of Asian American applicants to Harvard. That group has twice the representation within Harvard than it does in the US but they're still suing because other students with lower scores are sometimes admitted instead of an Asian American applicant with higher scores.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing a familiarity with a good chunk of the history of systematic racism in the U.S. There are reasons homogeneous communities form in the U.S. A few of those reasons have to do with city planning and legislation. City planning can be racist in nature and promote exclusionary communities. Redlining, while not typically state legislation, is a good example of practices that contributed to the formati…

What you're missing is that growing up there simply _weren't_ people outside my community/culture. It was much less about systematic racism and much more about who chose to immigrate to specific regions in the late 19th century. What you're talking about are things that happened in larger cities, but that's not the whole world and that doesn't match the history of much of the midwest. The parent was right, if there i…

The absence of other people outside your community was not an accident. Members of the government, of financial institutions and urban planning departments made deliberate choices to exclude certain types of people:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-cas...

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history...

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#154
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

>Does anyone have suggestions on how to fix this? One option would be to have the cultures integrate so there are not sub communities for PoC. This doesn't seem to have worked. But the other option is that you expect Midwesterners to treat people from outside their community the same as people inside their community. That isn't going to happen. So it seems like it is an impossible situation. From my outside perspecti…

You can think something is ridiculous all you want, but that doesn't make it inaccurate. You feel it's all a proxy for racism? Fine. Tell me, then: between an F-150 and a Silverado, which one is the "white" truck?

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#155
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

(It's worth noting that, while this sort of thing comes up a lot in the context of the midwest, the midwest isn't special in this regard.) > I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." The genetic basis for delineating "races" is sketchy at best. The cultural aspects are as important as skin color to the definition of race, which is why either the fir…

All human communities like to define themselves in terms of in-groups and out-groups. All of them, including this one.

In the Midwest, you have to make the decisions finer since most people around really are indistinguishable on the usual terms.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing a familiarity with a good chunk of the history of systematic racism in the U.S. There are reasons homogeneous communities form in the U.S. A few of those reasons have to do with city planning and legislation. City planning can be racist in nature and promote exclusionary communities. Redlining, while not typically state legislation, is a good example of practices that contributed to the formati…

What you're missing is that growing up there simply _weren't_ people outside my community/culture. It was much less about systematic racism and much more about who chose to immigrate to specific regions in the late 19th century. What you're talking about are things that happened in larger cities, but that's not the whole world and that doesn't match the history of much of the midwest. The parent was right, if there i…

I can relate to this, but at the same time I think the lack of diversity does foster a lot of sort of abstract dislike and discrimination, especially combined with religion and the media. The two examples I have in mind are Middle Easterners and homosexuality. In lots of the midwest you won't find anyone openly admitting to be either, and only negative stereotypes or feelings.

[This leads to a stereotypical kind of storyline where a biased individual gains a friend or family member of the given type (perhaps a child comes out as gay or so on), and once the issue becomes real and personal for them, changes their mind.]

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#157
post #7

> In a 2015 essay for Slate, “The Rust-Belt Theory of Low-Cost High Culture,” reporter Alec McGillis marveled at the cheapness—and, it seems, the mere presence—of good orchestra and museum tickets in interior cities: One fact of history that’s often overlooked is that patronage has left an incredible legacy in places like Cleveland, Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, etc. For example, one of the finest collections of…

Wait, is Philly considered Midwestern, not East Coast?

By Midwesterners or East Coastites?

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Midwesterner, this is incredibly accurate. I personally don't like multiculturalism, and I don't know of many people in my area that do. In my opinion and experience, multiculturalism in society makes a sense of community very difficult if not impossible to create. Having standard methods of communication, standard social and moral norms, and standard goals and beliefs makes empathizing with my neighbor so much…

This is a question of which came first the chicken or the egg? Is the fact that cultures are represented unevenly in society the fault of the non-dominant cultures or the dominant culture? Is poverty and chronic stress cause by culture or is it caused by racist systems? It might be a cycle but if people weren't racists then it might be easier to break the cycle. Personally, I love multiculturalism. Being a white guy…

Add me on the list that loves multiculturalism. It is so much more interesting and I find a desire for anything else hard to understand. What I am most curious about is why something a cherish so strongly others dislike.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#159
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you remove race the issue is with poor/rich

It's always been about socioeconomic classes, but the best proxy for it is race (or how you look...). If there were something more obvious, such as giant face tattoos or being obese and wearing mismatched/sloppy clothing, then we could use that too to infer which socioeconomic classes they are in and how they are likely to act.

People tend to be quite capable of judging someone else's social class at a glance, though, or at least after a few words have been spoken. Racial cues are a pretty small part of it.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#160
post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

>Does anyone have suggestions on how to fix this? One option would be to have the cultures integrate so there are not sub communities for PoC.

I find it a bit insane that people think that this is even something that needs to be fixed - why can't different ethnic groups live among themselves, instead of being required to lose their ethnic identity and become part of the larger group? Do you seriously think that's what they actually want? What you're advocating for is the destruction of their ethnic identity. I think that's wrong.

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