Jōyō kanji variants: The curious case of 叱 and 𠮟 (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: Jōyō kanji variants: The curious case of 叱 and 𠮟 (2016)

#151

Post by jhanschoo » Mon, Nov 13, 2017, 11:39 AM UTC

patal wrote: post #149

glandium wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how I made my opinion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_order#Stroke_order_per_... separates traditional stroke order, Taiwan, Japanese, mainland China and Hong Kong, and specifically talks about 𠂇, saying that the traditional stroke order differentiates its stroke order according to etymology and character structure. Which in and of itself, is not sufficient, but is a strong clue. Then, if you look up th…

Wow, thanks for the resources! You make a convincing argument. I studied sinology, but did not go that deep into character etymology. So basically, what those writers did when they wanted to write properly, was to have the older script variants in their heads, even though the actual forms they were writing may look the same. Or rather, look the same in print and in later standards. Huh.

In Chinese calligraphy one is instructed to emulate the shapes of model master calligraphers, and typically there is only one stroke order that can consistently achieve the look and style of the model characters.

Re: Jōyō kanji variants: The curious case of 叱 and 𠮟 (2016)

#152

Post by innocentoldguy » Thu, Nov 16, 2017, 4:44 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #84

innocentoldguy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to do in Japanese due to all the homonyms. Kanji gives meaning where romanizations would not.

Early video games didn't have enough resolution to display Kanji, which is why all text was Kana-only. With spaces as word separators and sentence context homonyms are no more of a problem than in other languages.

What do video games have to do with it? Pong didn't have the resolution to display Shakespeare, but we didn't stop using words because of it. Video games provide a visual context that reading alone does not. Also, early video games, especially consoles like the NES Famicom, were geared towards kids who don't understand many kanji. The same is true of books aimed at children in Japan. They don't use kanji and they provide visual context in the form of illustrations.

Ask any Japanese person why they use kanji and not just hiragana, katakana, or romaji and they'll tell you the same thing: Because it is hard to determine the meaning. They don't say it is impossible, just that it is difficult, which it is.

For a contrived example, if I write はしをさがしてる。What am I looking for, a chopstick, a bridge, or the side of something? There is no way to discern from the sentence alone. However, if I use this kanji for hashi, 箸, then it is obvious I'm talking about chopsticks. There is no ambiguity.

This doesn't always help. Sometimes the homonyms use the same kanji. 青山, for instance, can be read あおやま, which is a surname, or it can be read せいざん, which means a lush, green mountain. Most of the time though, kanji provides meaning and clarity where hiragana, katakana, and romaji do not.

Re: Jōyō kanji variants: The curious case of 叱 and 𠮟 (2016)

#153

Post by innocentoldguy » Thu, Nov 16, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

Asooka wrote: post #99

innocentoldguy wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hard to do in Japanese due to all the homonyms. Kanji gives meaning where romanizations would not.

Spoken language doesn't have kanji and people can communicate just fine.

@HumanDrivenDev - Right, because in spoken conversation the listener can ask for clarification when the speaker's commentary is ambiguous, which happens all the time. You cannot do that when you're reading a book.