Live data from Hacker News

Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

tonywright.com

151–160 of 172 posts

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top money manager at major Wall Street firm != random people. It doesn't necessarily mean stocks are about to go down either (Wall Street has certainly been wrong too, eg. 2000 or 2007), but it's a far cry from having a shoe-shine boy tell you to buy stocks.

Wall St was right in 2000 and 2007. It was 1995-1999 and 1998-2006 when Wall St (and everyone else) was wrong (on tech stocks and housing, respectively).

A broken clock is right twice a day.

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#152
post #41

Does the rule that you should get out of the stock market when random people tell you stocks are sure to go up apply in reverse? If so, this is a pretty encouraging sign.

"Be Fearful When Others Are Greedy and Greedy When Others Are Fearful" Warren Buffett. The second half indicates he thinks so.

I won't lie, I've been funding my IRA early lately.

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#153
post #41

Does the rule that you should get out of the stock market when random people tell you stocks are sure to go up apply in reverse? If so, this is a pretty encouraging sign.

In a market full of speculators that is true. I think the money manager is talking about people who are moving money out of the market because they want to retire, medical expenses, income, etc.

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, shouldn't all stocks be dividend paying? If your stock doesn't pay dividends, what makes it any different from baseball cards as an investment?

It's different from baseball cards because a given baseball card can't start paying dividends if all the people who own the card have a vote and decide it should. I used to spend a lot of time playing Railroad Tycoon 2, and in that game a good way to get rich is 1. Put all your money in to a railroad you control. 2. Grow your railroad. As your railroad grows, the value of your stock in it grows. This causes your purc…

"I think there's a good argument to be made that companies like Google know what to do with the money they're making."

There's a good argument that a company like Microsoft doesn't anymore, which is why they were pretty much forced to pay out a big dividend a few years back. Just to give an example at the opposite end of the corporate life cycle.

Just found this article suggesting it's still an issue:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-22/microsoft-may-use-c...

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#156
post #109
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not, but the current situation smacks of systemic job loss rather than cyclical job loss. It's a problem. What happens when people absolutely can't find new jobs? Self-feeding demand destruction?

"No, it's not, but the current situation smacks of systemic job loss rather than cyclical job loss." Sounds like we're back in the 80's - 'the Japanese are taking our jobs! The robots did it!' and then we went into the 20 most prosperous years humankind has ever known. I hear people cry left and right that today's job loss is systemic, but I hardly see any factual arguments to support that position. Jobs were cut ove…

"we're back in the 80's " We're not. Baby boomers were in their prime during that time, therefore consumption still increased over time, and innovation still thrived. Now, the biggest consumer market in the world is disappearing, with no comparable replacement in sight.

"10 times better than the kings of 500 years ago." Yes, but both you and jacquesm are confusing technology advancement with an economic phenomenon, which is defined by high structural unemployment rate and many business failures

"pack cans of beans and ammo and head for the mountains." Nobody says you have to do that. 75% of the people that lived through the great depression lived a normal but frugal life. However, if/when the dollar suffers from hyperinflation, that's another story.

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#157

am I the only one who sees a flaw in the math here? I mean I wasn't a math major in college, but i did take financial math, and think he's forgetting a key thing called compound interest.

I can't figure out his math, either. In his second example, if you put $4M in a bank account that gets 2%, and can still save $10K a year you'll have $7.6 mil in 30 years. If you can get 8% (which I think you can, all arguments to the contrary) you will have $41M. Maybe he just means once you get the cash, you quit your job, put the money under the mattress and spend it all?

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#158
It's actually silly to think that stock market ROIs won't rise again. They're abnormally low now, but we've seen it many times before.

Market returns are based on the amount investors need to take the inherent risks. Unless stock market investing gets considerably less risky (seems quite unlikely) investors will leave the market for less risky vehicles until rates return to the amounts needed to justify taking the risk, which have historically been around 7-10%.

Stocks, real estate, bonds, and all other market-based investment vehicles will always have returns in-line with risks in the long run.

Nobody should ever retire hoping to get a steady income from the stock market or real estate or other volatile investments. By the time you're ready to retire, you should be entirely in FDIC-insured CDs and the like. If your retirement plan is contingent on 6% annually you're asking for trouble, and you're probably going to get it if you live long enough.

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#159
I come to this thread late but couple points:

1. Low return on money. That's because money itself worth more now; the Fed has destroyed whole bunch money via credit tightening. We have gone through an asset deflation phrase and the money you have can buy more assets now. It's ok to have low return on money for now.

2. Asset allocation. Should not just put your FU money in stocks or Treasury. Read up on asset allocation. Have better downfall protection and better return.

3. 4% withdrawal rate. Studies and simulations have found that annual 4% withdrawal rate of a portfolio can make it last for very long time adjusted for inflation. 4% of 2M is 80K, which can provide a nice living.

4. Count net worth, not just cash. That 80K makes a big difference with a paid-for house.

5. Don't discount Social Security/Medicare/IRA/401K/Pension. The discussion of couple millions of PRESENT day often ignores the age restricted retirement funds. Those can be substantial.

Re: Rethinking 'Fuck You' money

#160
post #83
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can build a $100K/year product, why not do that, and then use that money as your runway while you build your five million dollar product? building a company is /much/ easier if you don't have to worry about where rent is coming from three months from now.

because at that point it's very easy to get complacent...and building up to $100K for a niche business still takes time and money.

personally, I'd rather try to run a starup while fighting complacency than while either trying to wrangle investors or working a dayjob. I think complacency would be a lot less distracting.
Post reply on HN