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Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

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Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#111
Sorry, I'm gonna have to flame Dell out here.

I own a Dell XPS 13 9365, a 2-in-1 laptop. Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this machine, but you can still actually make it run by disabling Secure Boot and setting the SATA mode to AHCI. Even then, Ubuntu doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for tablet mode or stuff like that -- but that's probably Ubuntu's driver support. The machine also can't wake up from suspend mode, which I suspect is a driver thing.

Problem is, if you then apply a typical, recommended firmware upgrade from your Ubuntu Software Manager, it bricks the laptop. The problem being, "applying" the firmware upgrade in Ubuntu just primes it to run when you restart the computer. When you restart the computer, the BIOS detects a present firmware upgrade and applies it, without apparently double-checking that, you know, this isn't gonna brick the computer. I now have to wait for a technician to arrive today and replace my motherboard, then figure out how to change those BIOS settings again so that I can boot back into Linux.

Maybe Ubuntu could have stopped this by detecting compatibility issues between the firmware package and the hardware. Dell's BIOS definitely should have stopped this by detecting the compatibility issue between its own settings and the firmware package. Alternately, if the issue is that, for instance, the BIOS won't check these packages because I've disabled Secure Boot, the BIOS needs to bloody well differentiate between Secure Boot for operating systems (which we want off, because we own our laptops, thank you very much) and for BIOS/firmware packages (which we want on, because why brick a good machine?).

Overall, great machine, but bad Dell, no cookie.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#112
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some developers enjoy a graphical IDE worlds, keyboard shortcuts + mouse, not everyone feels likes developer == "UNIX user/CLI".

> Some developers enjoy a graphical IDE worlds, keyboard shortcuts + mouse Many devs using Linux do too. Every single one out of many many dozens of Desktop Environment and/or Window Manager combinations let you enjoy all these. Just a matter of familiarity. VS is certainly a neat IDE and always was since I first played with it ~17-18 years ago, but hasn't been the only player in a long time now. Unless you need to u…

Most Linux users are against nice UI/UX provided by GNOME, KDE, Anjuta, KDevelop, GNOME Builder, .... as seen by the complaints and forks.

There is this culture of tiling window managers, vim, Emacs, everything done via CLI and UI/UX is a subject of interest only for dumb users.

Which surfaces as the biggest one among its users.

So anyone that cares about programming pleasant UI/UX workflows, hang with developers that share the same love for it, only has macOS and Windows dev cultures as harbor.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#113
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc. Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression, and th…

> Windows has gotten a lot better [...] Remember when we used to say the same thing about Linux? Funny how times change.

Regarding gaming - Linux went backwards now that new gadgets like VR headsets and high refresh synced monitors are required for serious gaming. Feels like 2002 all over again without any games.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#114

Sorry, I'm gonna have to flame Dell out here. I own a Dell XPS 13 9365, a 2-in-1 laptop. Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this machine, but you can still actually make it run by disabling Secure Boot and setting the SATA mode to AHCI. Even then, Ubuntu doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for tablet mode or stuff like that -- but that's probably Ubuntu's driver support. The mac…

I had a Dell XPS 13 i7 with Ubuntu pre installed that I sent back within a day because of lack of support for qhd display and horrible electrical "coil whining".

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#115
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> proper GPU acceleration What GPU is this? > only beaten by macOS Well, you said you wanted "proper GPU acceleration", macOS GPU drivers are terrible. They're unstable, they have limp shader compilers, they are CPU-intensive, and in the case of OpenGL, they are behind by nearly six years in terms of features. Today, your sleek MacBook Pro supports considerably fewer modern GPU features than your average entry-level…

> What GPU is this? Any capable of DirectX 12, but only gets OpenGL 4.3 drivers or similar on GNU/Linux. Or my AMD Brazos one on a Linux netbook, DirectX 11 class, which only gets OpenGL 3.3 drivers. Regarding OpenGL on macOS, I don't care, that is what rendering engines are for, and all relevant ones already support Metal 2.

> Any capable of DirectX 12, but only gets OpenGL 4.3 drivers or similar on GNU/Linux.

What GPU is this? I don't know of a DX12 device which lacks OpenGL 4.5 support in a stable release of Mesa (or the blob, in the case of NVIDIA, since they are uncooperative with regard to firmware).

> Regarding OpenGL on macOS, I don't care, that is what rendering engines are for, and all relevant ones already support Metal 2.

Sure, if you're running only games, and those that were made before 2012, and after 2017, then that works fine. For an example of something that does not currently use Metal (2 or no 2): any web browser (to my knowledge, including Apple's own, except as a backend for the WebGPU prototype), professional graphics application, or visualization utility. The shader compiler is still subpar, even in Metal.

> Or my AMD Brazos one on a Linux netbook, DirectX 11 class, which only gets OpenGL 3.3 drivers.

IIRC Brazos in that range would be... Radeon HD 6330M, and you're right, that should support GL 4.4. If you're running Mesa from 2016 or later, it should have 4.1 (and most extensions, except compute shaders, up to 4.4), if you run AMD's blob you can probably get 4.4 on it today. Work on drivers for pre-southern-islands devices is slow these days, but anything after SI has full certified OpenGL 4.5 on Mesa along with every extension in in 4.6 except for SPIR-V loading (coming soon), and the performance is better in basically all cases than it is on Windows, or with the proprietary drivers on Linux (though for now you'll need the proprietary drivers for some features like FreeSync, which is unfortunate but oh well).

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really see what the big game changer is whether a laptop comes preinstalled with Ubuntu or if I do it myself. It means a certain level of support. They're actively trying to make this thing run Linux well, instead of leaving it up to "the community". And you don't have to go reading forums or blog posts before buying just to figure out if it will have some stupid UEFI bug or whatever that makes installing L…

Lenovo did the same in the early days at least, they were very aware of having to produce high compatibility laptops. Not so much for the point of open source but for business usage which sometimes required non-windows OS's. But sure I applaud Dell. The world should rid of Windows.

No longer, apparently. A colleague if mine has had some headaches with ubuntu on his legion Y520, including no wifi connectivity at work. My T430 has no problems though.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#117
post #55

If you don't need the portability of a laptop and want a similar package to the Dell XPS for a lot less money: an Intel NUC might be an idea. I've been using one for almost a year after my XPS 13 9343 got stolen. Dell's significant price increase on the newer models made me try out the NUC and it's been great so far. If you stick to these 'mainstream' components (the XPS and NUC have very similar hardware), Linux sup…

What specific NUC are your referring to?

I meant these: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits...

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#119
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> proper GPU acceleration What GPU is this? > only beaten by macOS Well, you said you wanted "proper GPU acceleration", macOS GPU drivers are terrible. They're unstable, they have limp shader compilers, they are CPU-intensive, and in the case of OpenGL, they are behind by nearly six years in terms of features. Today, your sleek MacBook Pro supports considerably fewer modern GPU features than your average entry-level…

> What GPU is this? Any capable of DirectX 12, but only gets OpenGL 4.3 drivers or similar on GNU/Linux. Or my AMD Brazos one on a Linux netbook, DirectX 11 class, which only gets OpenGL 3.3 drivers. Regarding OpenGL on macOS, I don't care, that is what rendering engines are for, and all relevant ones already support Metal 2.

I find that to be irrelevant for development (except games, of course).

In fact, my graphics card (the cheapest to support Vista) is the only thing I haven't upgraded in the past 5+ years. And it was from eBay, used.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#120
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc. Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression, and th…

Well, I remember 30 years ago you didn’t have to disable ads, Bing crap and telemetry. In fact 5 years ago all you needed to disable was shitty drivers and some trial software.

5 years ago it was horrible we all just forget the bad things and mostly remember good.

From 2012: https://www.itworld.com/article/2718342/consumerization/here...

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