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Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

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Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#91

Post by icebraining »

majewsky wrote: post #38
jorgemf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, I break arch less times than Ubuntu and I use it daily while I use Ubuntu casually

Arch's KISS attitude is really helpful for that. Whenever I have to deal with a Debian/Ubuntu system, I'm sort of weary of "apt install"ing any daemons because of the autoconfigure magic that's going on in dpkg. With Arch, installing a package just unpacks the package files and runs a few innocuous post-install hooks, mostly to rebuild indexes (mandb, fontconfig, etc.) and compile DKMS-based kernel modules. But nothi…

Also, it installs exactly what you want, instead of dozens of tangentially-related "suggested packages".

So does Debian, if that's what you tell it you want (either on the config file or as a CLI argument). Even without that, while it may suggest a full MTA by default, you can ask it for another solution and it'll suggest a simple mailer (like bsd-mailx).

I don't dispute that Arch's defaults guide you to a simpler system, but it's not really hard to start from Debian netinstall and add just what you need, package by package.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#92

Post by microcolonel »

blntechie wrote: post #56
dkersten wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously if you're developing primarily for Windows, you're going to need to run Windows. I don't think that's what the person you're replying to meant by that at all, but rather that the Windows UX doesn't buy you , as the user of the OS, anything that Linux doesn't.

I never get to see same smoothness in graphics and fonts as MacOS/Windows/ChromeOS in the same machine with Linux. Every single time I decide that I'm moving to Linux, I give up after living with the browsers for a day or two. Rendering and fonts are just inferior to other systems in my experience.

> I never get to see same smoothness in graphics and fonts as MacOS/Windows/ChromeOS in the same machine with Linux.

Well, Chrome OS runs the same stuff as your average Linux distro, however maybe most distros don't turn on subpixel antialiasing in their FontConfig out of the box. (I don't know because I've been sharing configs between machines of the same distro for about five years).

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#93

Post by tinus_hn »

jmkni wrote: post #31
luka-birsa wrote: post #6

As a 20 year Linux user I really appreciate Dells support in proving the market exists. This improved support across all manufacturers. I've recently acquired a HP Envy 13 2017 laptop with Windows preinstalled. I've really wanted to try Windows out, but after installing Google Chrome and Docker (1hr after starting it up) it stopped working - windows boot up into a blank black screen. In a hurry I've downloaded Ubuntu…

Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc. Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression, and th…

Well, I remember 30 years ago you didn’t have to disable ads, Bing crap and telemetry. In fact 5 years ago all you needed to disable was shitty drivers and some trial software.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#94

Post by tinus_hn »

Kipters wrote: post #44
jmkni wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc. Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression, and th…

There's an option in Windows Defender settings that automatically wipes the hard drive and reinstalls from scratch, without the manufacturer's bloatware

So only Microsoft’s bloatware is left. With the ads and ‘telemetry’ spyware.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#95

Post by kccqzy »

majewsky wrote: post #38
jorgemf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect, I break arch less times than Ubuntu and I use it daily while I use Ubuntu casually

Arch's KISS attitude is really helpful for that. Whenever I have to deal with a Debian/Ubuntu system, I'm sort of weary of "apt install"ing any daemons because of the autoconfigure magic that's going on in dpkg. With Arch, installing a package just unpacks the package files and runs a few innocuous post-install hooks, mostly to rebuild indexes (mandb, fontconfig, etc.) and compile DKMS-based kernel modules. But nothi…

Suggested packages are off by default. You are talking about recommended packages which can be turned off via --no-install-recommends.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#97

Post by microcolonel »

pjmlp wrote: post #43
dkersten wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously if you're developing primarily for Windows, you're going to need to run Windows. I don't think that's what the person you're replying to meant by that at all, but rather that the Windows UX doesn't buy you , as the user of the OS, anything that Linux doesn't.

Sure it does, proper GPU acceleration, hybrid graphics support and hibernation that actually works, and UI/UX tooling resembling Xerox PARC way of computing, only beaten by macOS. Not everyone wants to replicate a PDP-11.

> proper GPU acceleration

What GPU is this?

> only beaten by macOS

Well, you said you wanted "proper GPU acceleration", macOS GPU drivers are terrible. They're unstable, they have limp shader compilers, they are CPU-intensive, and in the case of OpenGL, they are behind by nearly six years in terms of features. Today, your sleek MacBook Pro supports considerably fewer modern GPU features than your average entry-level smartphone. You're missing stuff like multi draw indirect, texture clears, 8-bit stencils, image copying, explicit uniform location...

> hibernation that actually works

Well, I have that set up (and in my case it really has to be optional, since I have a really disk-scarce device right now). It worked correctly. I believe systemd will even monitor my battery and hibernate before it gets too low, like you'd expect (though maybe it could be brought out of hibernation enough times in a row to eventually run out of power before systemd gets to it). Maybe there should be a smoother transition between suspend and suspend-to-disk like macs with macOS have, but that isn't strictly necessary.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#98

Post by oliwarner »

I wanted to throw my money at Dell last year. I wanted the top of the line XPS laptop with Linux. But I needed it quick. At that point, at least, Dell were building them to order in China. Two weeks plus shipping for the UK market.

I'm not sure if this is the same for their other models but I bet there's a big pile of Windows machines sitting in an EU warehouse.

To add insult to injury, I asked if they could improve the price in a web chat and the guy botched it so hard he added an extra £93 onto the price. Outsourced, off-shored support at its very worst.

In the end I dropped a fraction of the money on a next-day-delivered Thinkpad 13, tore Windows off it and raised another flag for glorious penguin.

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#99

Post by NightlyDev »

There are still issues using Linux on XPS laptops from Dell, but funny enough Windows has had both huge touchpad and audio issues for a couple of years(probably a lot of changes with Win10).

Heck, I've bought one of each of the three latest(?) XPS 13 laptops, all with windows even though it has been replaced by Ubuntu the day I got them.

Dell does show windows versions on the website before the Linux alternative shows up, and I guess the Linux version would sell even better if we didn't just buy one with windows as we know Dell is working on ensuring Linux support.

Good job Dell, I hope this stuff continues!

Re: Dell’s gamble on Linux laptops has paid off

#100

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

oliwarner wrote: post #98

I wanted to throw my money at Dell last year. I wanted the top of the line XPS laptop with Linux. But I needed it quick. At that point, at least, Dell were building them to order in China. Two weeks plus shipping for the UK market. I'm not sure if this is the same for their other models but I bet there's a big pile of Windows machines sitting in an EU warehouse. To add insult to injury, I asked if they could improve…

No, same with Win10 machines.

Bought an XPS13 maxed out from Dell. Website deceivably back then said 2 days shipping, but I didn't realize it meant 2 days to deliver it to the carrier and the 3 weeks to Germany from China. Website made it look like it was in Europe when I ordered. BIOS gives smoke detection loudness (!) level alarms at night when some hardware part fails and laptop reboots.

Beside that, hardware is crappy, get's too hot, also hardware gives load pitching and buzzing noises when under load. Keyboard has problems too. I can't run Linux b/c I've stupidly ordered NVMe.

Would never again buy Dell, I'm back with Apple for my next laptop.

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