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Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

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Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#111

Post by icebraining »

indubitable wrote: post #64
calcifer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sense once again an attempt to shame Thiel for his views You say that like there is some sort of hidden agenda. Personally I think there is nothing even remotely wrong with shaming Thiel for his deeply intolerant views. In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Just because an individual opines on something doesn't somehow turn it into a sudden irrefutable fact. And that wiki article is completely devoid of examples aside from giving a number of other views on the topic - in which literally every single one disagrees with him. It's no different than arguing that the key to solving violence is violence. Wrapping a layer of specious logic around it makes it no more reasonable…

It's interesting too in that I think everybody can see that violence inherently breeds violence

On the contrary, we created an official group tasked with dealing out violence (the police) because it's generally accepted (whether it's true or not) that some violence must be met with violence.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#112

Post by omginternets »

sdoering wrote: post #21
factsaresacred wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity I don't know if "dangers" is your word or his, but it's been shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive. This is opposed to cultural pluralism, where a dominant culture exists and tolerates additional values that don't erode or threaten the dominant culture. The reason I comment is…

And your unquoted "proof" is gathered exactly how? You state something as a standing fact without giving us the ability to check the stated facts (and underlying methodologies) ourselves. So it seems to me that people using arguing strategies like you just seem to have done are eroding "trust" in a rational discussion more then anything else. Tactics like these are well below what I personally would classify as honor…

This whole comment thread is (ironically) a succinct illustration of the original point: it's difficult to evaluate claims about "multiculturalism" on merit, because people get touchy.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#113

Post by [deleted] »

retailbuyout wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

[deleted]

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#114

Post by omginternets »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #67
VeejayRampay wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute irony of a post on an account whose handle is "facts are sacred" that just declares that "multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive" without providing any form of justification, proof, actual study about the subject, without thinking about the pre-existing bias that might exist in society to make that all of that difficult on a daily basis. Weak sauce.

This is exactly how ethnic nationalism in America becomes normalized. Reminds me of the kid who protested in Charlottesville explaining that he wasn't a racist, he just really hated mass immigration and the ensuing diversity after 1965 (which was when immigration became accessible to non Europeans..).

>This is exactly how ethnic nationalism in America becomes normalized.

Sounds like you're preaching censorship, both of speech and of research. Is this really the position you want to take?

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#115

Post by mrschwabe »

speedplane wrote: post #102
mrschwabe wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hillary, as Secretary of State, had an unauthorized email server running from a household bathroom that was being used to transmit classified material (that she lied about). If not technically incompetent, then sure - how about woefully ignorant, deceitful & corrupt and in no position to take lead role of the world's most powerful country. And that is not even taking into account the beef in the leaked emails, for ex…

> I dont' judge people based on political opinion ... but do like to point out anomalies & contradictions. Everyone has anomalies and contradictions. Chucking substance and just looking for red herrings is the exact opposite of the type of critical analysis people need to do.

Fair point, but staying silent isn't a good option either. If everyone chucks substance perhaps at least there are those on the sidelines who can aggregate all of it, dig deeper, critically analyze & and make their own determinations.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#116

Post by vidarh »

dx034 wrote: post #83
ben_w wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still end up with a single way of thinking, but it’s less likely . Think of it as rolling D20s instead of D6s, where each number represents a given mode of thought.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've worked in companies where diversity was seen as important but where people also liked hiring from the Universities they went to. You really don't get any diversity of thoughts with that. But those experiences are from the UK, maybe in the US color of skin says more about your character than the university you went to.

That certainly happens, but you will also find that companies - in the UK too - that insists on e.g. hiring from a select set of universities will tend to also have problems ensuring racial diversity for example. Because it's exceedingly rare that they'll have a representative distribution when hiring from a selective set of universities.

E.g. my ex works in HR for a bank that has a diversity board tasked with improving diversity. Problem: The bank prefers to hire from a certain set of universities that is dominated by students from private education backgrounds, which are predominantly upper middle class and above, which means they're predominantly white.

The numbers are such that with the universities in question they can not match the overall ethnic mix of the UK while recruiting staff with the degrees they want from those universities.

Yet suggesting that one hires by merit rather than by which university they're educated at is totally taboo to even suggest, though it'd almost certainly instantly improve their diversity and raise overall skill levels.

Companies where diversity is actually seen as important will quickly realize that they need to revise hiring policies. And one of the ways to revise it in most areas is to actually hire by merit, rather than by university "brand".

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#117

Post by omginternets »

Jack000 wrote: post #110
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others. imo it is a goal to strive for. Unlike humans, ideas are not created equal - some must be bitterly fought against. The "Diversity of ideas" meme is the "embrace, extend, extinguish" of political ideas, you can basically use it to promote any idea that's unpopular.

>Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others.

Is it?

It's a priori possible that certain cultures tend to hold certain values that contribute to their success in initially-diverse societies, and as such will be over-represented down the road.

I don't know if this is actually the case; the point is rather to show that your position -- which is common in those who explicitly support mulitculturalist policy -- begs the question. In practice, it amounts to a proclamation of faith.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#118

Post by aroberge »

factsaresacred wrote: post #19
burnte wrote: post #6

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite hard to restrict rights at every level of government, including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against equal rights for gay people. He's a great representation that some people will align themselves with anyone to further the…

> the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity I don't know if "dangers" is your word or his, but it's been shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive. This is opposed to cultural pluralism, where a dominant culture exists and tolerates additional values that don't erode or threaten the dominant culture. The reason I comment is…

Canada would disagree with you. One in five people living in Canada was born in another country [1]. Canada is officially a multicultural country [2]. Yet, there is a lot more trust and a lot less social strife than in the U.S., to use a comparison with the article you quote from the U.S.

[1] http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-010-x/99-01...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Multiculturalism_Act

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#119

Post by Vinnl »

curtisblaine wrote: post #100
burnte wrote: post #6

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite hard to restrict rights at every level of government, including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against equal rights for gay people. He's a great representation that some people will align themselves with anyone to further the…

BTW I don't understand how fully-diverse, equally-represented companies haven't taken advantage of their unfair advantage and taken over the world yet :)

Well, that can be difficult if your diverse, equally-represented employees were not able to enjoy e.g. the education and upbringing of some non-diverse under-represented institutions and homes...

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#120

Post by lmm »

retailbuyout wrote: post #39
bufferoverflow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

True enough, but all too often "diversity" is implemented as hiring people exclusively from the international middle-class culture, which is in many respects a far more homogeneous group than "white men".
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