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Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

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Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#101

Post by klmr »

CrystalLangUser wrote: post #81
icebraining wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what it means; it's freedom from being held to account by at least some groups. Which ones being a matter of debate.

No, it isn't up for debate. Free speech is only an unalienable right, in the US, from the government. Not facebook, not google, and certainly not individuals suing a private entity. Everything else stems from the public and historical landmark court cases related to free speech- and the benches of the supreme court have staunchly defended freedom of speech from the government .

> Free speech is only an unalienable right, in the US, from the government.

You’re confusing the concept of Free Speech and the law codified in the First Amendment rights. Free Speech as a concept is (by necessity) much broader (both as defined in the declaration of human rights, and as envisaged by the thinkers who originally proposed it). It doesn’t mean “there’s no accountability whatsoever” but it does mean that there’s an active duty to uphold individuals’ rights to articulate themselves. Unfortunately this confusion is extremely common — even the Wikipedia article restricts it to government intervention in the opening paragraph (but then broadens it).

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#102

Post by speedplane »

mrschwabe wrote: post #99
tiles wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a prominent tech company claiming to invest in 'hackers' endorsing a candidate who had just been exposed as technically incompetent Her opponent is wildly incompetent with technology. I'm not sure why you latch onto this idea that Clinton was uniquely bad at IT. Googling comes up with exactly two photos of Trump ever using a computer. He doesn't even have a web browser on his phone [according to this NYT article](…

Hillary, as Secretary of State, had an unauthorized email server running from a household bathroom that was being used to transmit classified material (that she lied about). If not technically incompetent, then sure - how about woefully ignorant, deceitful & corrupt and in no position to take lead role of the world's most powerful country. And that is not even taking into account the beef in the leaked emails, for ex…

> I dont' judge people based on political opinion ... but do like to point out anomalies & contradictions.

Everyone has anomalies and contradictions. Chucking substance and just looking for red herrings is the exact opposite of the type of critical analysis people need to do.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#103

Post by retailbuyout »

dx034 wrote: post #76
retailbuyout wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

The crux is that a different color of skin doesn't mean different culture. Esp. those companies hiring from a selected set of universities will often come to realise that most employees think alike, independent of where their parents or grandparents were from. I'd go as far and say that you can get more diversity with an all-white/all-black (or any other color of skin) workforce that come from very different backgrou…

That’s true. Skin color is especially meaningful in the US, where privilege, opportunity, education, and many other aspects of life fall mainly along racial lines. In america, race is inextricably tied to skin color. I’m a little disappointed people have such issue acknowledging this. Once you do, you will acknowledge that the success criteria is a defacto racial criteria. Does this mean anyone is trying to be racist? Not necessarily. Is it racist? Yes. Should you care about it? Well, I suppose it’s a little antiquated to care about your country these days. But you should probably give a fuck about why there aren’t a lot of black people at google, because it says a lot about the US and about google—basically, corporations have no qualms about moving into an area, forcing people from their homes, and then not sharing in the profits.

And it says a hell of a lot about Thiel—there’s basically no evidence he isn’t a complete psychopath.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#104

Post by yannis7 »

dx034 wrote: post #82
mtgx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly few people in the tech media seem to be aware of this. But I'm not sure I'm too mad about someone trying to take down Google a notch. My only worry is not that people are starting to believe Silicon Valley companies can do no wrong anymore, but that the government will exploit the situation to force backdoors, censorship, and other stuff like that on them. And we're already seeing that. Feinstein and oth…

Google is a conglomerate like many before. At some point people will realise that it's better to split the company up and allow individual parts to focus more. Google's individual businesses often have very little overlap. But that's not only for Google. Amazon, for example, has no reason to keep AWS in the same company as ecommerce (except to subsidise businesses). Quite the opposite, keeping them apart would bring…

On your point, might be worth mentioning that Facebook is starting to lose its focus with acquisitions such as Oculus Rift - which Zuck considers a major strategic move

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#105

Post by mrschwabe »

icebraining wrote: post #62
mrschwabe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he was kicked off the board for 'wrong think' - he certainly was chastised by members of Facebook's board for endorsing & contributing to Donald Trump's Presidential campaign (Trump's victory vindication of said endorsement & contribution). While Thiel was endorsing/investing who would ultimately win - YC's President did the opposite. While Theil's endorsement/investment in Trump was based on principal - I don'…

Sam Altman himself explicitly said they weren't cutting ties with Thiel after the donation was known and they were pressured to do so. It would be strange to withstand that criticism only to silently do so afterwards.

Yes, it would be strange and also concerning and rather dishonest & contradictory - a little damaging to the integrity of the brand (which IMO has already been tarnished via the gleaming endorsement of Hillary Clinton in late 2016).

But perhaps someone has a link to a statement or article from YC on the matter where their position is clarified; I'm sure many of us would love to know.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#106

Post by whatyoucantsay »

speedplane wrote: post #96
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history What a disingenuous load of nonsense. If you film people having sex with their permission, then you are a pornographer and subject to certain restrictions as to how you may publish your works. If you film people having sex WITHOUT their permission or knowledge and post the videos online then yo…

If Thiel sued over Gawker's outing of Thiel being gay, that would be okay. If Hogan sued and won on his own, that would also be okay. What's not okay is using one's own immense wealth to fund litigation against a media outlet you do not like over issues unrelated to the reason you dislike them. There's no question this tips the balance of power.

It is a separate problem that legal fees in the US are so exorbitant as to render even millionaires helpless in confrontations with abusive corporations. By all means, there should have been no need for a wealthy benefactor in the first pace. Unfortunately, there was.

Mr. Thiel may have acted due to an alignment of selfish motivations, but he provided a public service, nonetheless. Both sides were adequately funded and the victim won on the merits of the case. Surely you're not suggesting it preferable that Gawker's sex crime go largely unpunished due to their victims being unable to afford a legal team of equal calibre?

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#107

Post by coldtea »

sdoering wrote: post #21
factsaresacred wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity I don't know if "dangers" is your word or his, but it's been shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive. This is opposed to cultural pluralism, where a dominant culture exists and tolerates additional values that don't erode or threaten the dominant culture. The reason I comment is…

And your unquoted "proof" is gathered exactly how? You state something as a standing fact without giving us the ability to check the stated facts (and underlying methodologies) ourselves. So it seems to me that people using arguing strategies like you just seem to have done are eroding "trust" in a rational discussion more then anything else. Tactics like these are well below what I personally would classify as honor…

>And your unquoted "proof" is gathered exactly how? You state something as a standing fact without giving us the ability to check the stated facts (and underlying methodologies) ourselves.

Discussion also implies trust. People don't have to bring evidence for everything they say, especially when other people can very easily look up relevant information online.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#108

Post by coldtea »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #55
factsaresacred wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read that. He concedes the study is valid and the problems real and difficult. Then he adds his own opinion that nevertheless it's worth it. > In the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the eff…

> I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history Intuitive has nothing to do with fact, plenty of factors might heavily influence what one considers "intuitive". For a lot of people the necessity of the death penalty is "intuitive", yet for many societies, it's an absolute no-brainer that such practices are medieval. So again, unless there is a corpus of studies, all pointing in the same directio…

>Intuitive has nothing to do with fact,

Studies in soft sciences have even less to do with fact too -- it's mostly the fads of the day presented as fact.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#109

Post by vidarh »

dx034 wrote: post #76
retailbuyout wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.

The crux is that a different color of skin doesn't mean different culture. Esp. those companies hiring from a selected set of universities will often come to realise that most employees think alike, independent of where their parents or grandparents were from. I'd go as far and say that you can get more diversity with an all-white/all-black (or any other color of skin) workforce that come from very different backgrou…

You can. But this line of argumentation is usually used as an excuse to justify a total lack of diversity. If we lived in a world where people didn't routinely abuse these kinds of arguments that way, then it'd be a fair argument to make, but as it stands odds are firmly in favor of assuming that people using this argument probably has an agenda that has nothing to do with wanting diversity of thought.

Re: Is billionaire VC Peter Thiel trying to break up Google?

#110

Post by Jack000 »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #16
burnte wrote: post #6

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite hard to restrict rights at every level of government, including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against equal rights for gay people. He's a great representation that some people will align themselves with anyone to further the…

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others. imo it is a goal to strive for.

Unlike humans, ideas are not created equal - some must be bitterly fought against. The "Diversity of ideas" meme is the "embrace, extend, extinguish" of political ideas, you can basically use it to promote any idea that's unpopular.

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