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1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

blog.agilebits.com

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Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#161

Post by fencepost »

roustem wrote: post #142
fencepost wrote: post #47

I find myself wondering if keepass is going to introduce a new vault type of small individual files in a directory and move into where 1Password used to be (including "cloud" using any of many cloud storage options). edit: Seems to me that even if you set a fixed file size of 1-2k for each entry it wouldn't be too huge, or perhaps a dual-file per entry system with one small fixed-size file (128-256 bytes?) for indexe…

That's how we designed the original 1Password data format (.agilekeychain). It certainly made syncing with Dropbox much simpler. It does have its drawbacks though. Once you have too many files (and make too many requests), both Dropbox and iCloud will start throttling you. It also might take a while to reload the data, even from the local disk. We had to add a cache file at some point.

I could see either local caching or (assuming the storage backend provides access to file metadata like date/time stamps that are internally consistent) I can think of several ways to have any instance of the application consolidate those small index files into larger ones such that you'd mostly need to load the consolidated file plus any individual entries modified since its timestamp. If those consolidated files were appropriately named you could even have multiple instances creating them at the same time without causing collisions. Cleanup could be a little trickier, but could likely be done with very little risk as long as a little bit of storage bloat wasn't a big concern.

Interesting thought experiment, thanks for mentioning your real-world experiences with it.

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#162

Post by neandrake »

Nicksil wrote: post #74
cdoxsey wrote: post #12

The hosted nonsense and poor linux and windows support is why I switched to enpass.

I'm glad you mentioned Enpass -- I hadn't heard of them. I'm currently a disgruntled 1Password user looking to jump ship. https://www.enpass.io

Another one you can check out is Codebook - https://www.zetetic.net/codebook/

No Linux support though

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#163

Post by iamthirsty »

AGKyle wrote: post #94
trurl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect free upgrades forever, but I am extremely disappointed that I will have migrate all my data to another product if they cease providing an offline version.

Disclosure: I work for AgileBits makers of 1Password We've already announced that 1Password 7 for Mac and 1Password 7 for Windows will continue to offer standalone licensing. Just a heads up that we're not removing the option for users like yourself that want to continue to use standalone vaults and the licensing to go with it. That said, if you haven't, I would recommend and least trying our 1Password.com service. I…

I've tried it, but it isn't for me (privacy-paranoid). That said, I really appreciated the post where you said standalone vaults would remain — made me feel like you guys cared. That's the whole thing. I literally don't need any more features besides security upgrades, and as long as I know you're still looking out for us too I'm perfectly happy.

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#164

Post by bad_user »

dkonofalski wrote: post #135
heartbreak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a patient person and beggars can't be choosers. Is it begging when you pay $50 per license for the product?

Yes it is because you're asking to get the upgrade for free. The version you paid $50 for has standalone support and will continue to work exactly as it did when you bought it. Maybe that's a caveat of the SaaS/hosted model. I don't see why they should be obligated to give anyone the version with new features for free, though.

This line of thought is bullshit.

When you buy a product you also buy it because:

1. you expect long term support

2. you believe in the company's values and business model

3. you trust that company to keep protecting your interests

There are many more factors going into a buying decision than "current implementation has features X or Y".

Many people are upset with AgileBits because when they bought 1Password, they did so believing that the company's strategy is aligned with them — i.e. at that time 1Password was THE offline password management solution, the other popular alternative being LastPass, a solution that relies on web interfaces and browser plugins and that has had vulnerabilities because of that.

I should also remind you that by buying a software product, you don't actually own it, you're just licensing it — the difference between a one time fee and a subscription being one of contractual obligations on both sides.

But that difference is irrelevant for the topic at hand, because you don't own the 1Password version that you bought, you cannot make improvements to it by yourself, it's not open source after all. When you buy a car for example, non-shitty / classic models at least, at the very least you are free to repair it and improve it by yourself.

And while true that AgileBits has no contractual obligations to keep delivering updates to their standalone version, I personally couldn't give a shit about the scope of their contractual obligations. Because in society when interacting with other people, we also care about other things and we are free to associate or disassociate ourselves from other people at will and the same rules govern our interaction with companies as well.

So when AgileBits no longer delivers a standalone Windows version, that's a serious reason for concern and a flag that we should look for alternatives.

AgileBits is free to do what they want of course, but we can also vote with our wallets after all. And we are also free to complain.

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#165

Post by jvzr »

Reading some comments, I feel like I may be the only one here: happy, paying customer. Had the standalone Mac and iOS clients, migrated to the Family plan when it was announced. Couldn't be happier. I really, really am. Love the 1Password.com client which displays all it usefulness on a guest computer. Can't wait to try out 1Password X, but unfortunately I've switched to Firefox recently :(

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#166

Post by RoXX1337 »

AGKyle wrote: post #124
plainOldText wrote: post #84

I’ve been using 1Password for years, mainly because the data stays local. If they decide to go full cloud-mode I’m switching to something else or just write my own cli password manager.

Disclosure: I work for AgileBits, makers of 1Password We've already announced that 1Password 7 for Mac will be available via standalone licenses, and 1Password 7 for Windows will offer standalone vaults and be available via a standalone license model. So nothing is changing in that regard. Our 1Password.com is the default solution we send our users to but standalone vaults are an option for those that wish to continu…

will 1Password 7 for windows finally have feature parity with the mac/ios versions? It has been borderline unusable for years, I complained in the forums like 2 years ago and all that has happened since then is that my thread got deleted.

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#168

Post by AGKyle »

RoXX1337 wrote: post #166
AGKyle wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: I work for AgileBits, makers of 1Password We've already announced that 1Password 7 for Mac will be available via standalone licenses, and 1Password 7 for Windows will offer standalone vaults and be available via a standalone license model. So nothing is changing in that regard. Our 1Password.com is the default solution we send our users to but standalone vaults are an option for those that wish to continu…

will 1Password 7 for windows finally have feature parity with the mac/ios versions? It has been borderline unusable for years, I complained in the forums like 2 years ago and all that has happened since then is that my thread got deleted.

Feature parity is something that our Windows team will be working towards. But you have to keep in mind that our Mac and iOS versions have existed for around 10 years. We last rewrote both of them for version 4 of each. 1Password for 4 iOS came out in late 2012, and 1Password 4 for Mac came out in late 2013.

Also keep in mind that both our Mac and iOS applications have a fair bit of shared code. The entirety of their backend, cryptography, local database, and plenty of other utility classes. This means we write something for one and the other can often use it immediately. They're also by far our most popular clients so we have the most people working on them.

Our Windows team has to try to keep up with that. So, as you can imagine they have a lot of work to do. I would not say they will be feature parity complete, more or less, ever. It's an uphill battle.

However, I think it's safer to say that with 1Password 7 they will have the basics done that will allow them to start implementing more user facing features to try to narrow that gap. There will always be a gap, but it can certainly be a smaller gap.

We don't delete any threads on our forum unless they are extremely egregious, so my guess is that the thread still exists unless you got out of line (or others maybe did). But we have always acknowledged that our Windows apps have had work to do.

With 1Password 6 for Windows we rewrote the entire client from scratch. It used to be written in Delphi. The new client is written in C# and built on more modern Windows APIs. We wanted to build for the future this time but we also knew that it was going to set us back to square one.

So about two years ago is when we started work on 1Password 6. It has come a long way, and with version 7 we'll see the return of standalone vaults and standalone licensing for those that want to remain on that path.

Hope that helps some, I just want to set expectations accordingly. Our Mac and iOS apps haven't stopped iterating, and our Windows application was already behind by several years because of the rewrite, it also has nothing that it can share code with, so it's at a disadvantage. We want feature parity and we will likely reach that for the most common features but there will always be a gap. As long as you understand the above, we're happy to field requests for what you believe needs to be there that isn't already there (in version 6).

Kyle

AgileBits

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#169

Post by AGKyle »

dillera wrote: post #157
AGKyle wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: I work for AgileBits, makers of 1Password How are we neglecting our standalone users? I'm really curious here because we are still introducing features in our existing applications that work for our standalone users. Certain new applications like 1Password X and our CLI are only really easily possible because of 1Password.com, but just because these are being offered doesn't mean we're neglecting our stan…

Just charge an upgrade fee for the next stand-alone version and then you can get your revenue back. But not charging for stand-alone upgrades you make it seem like the only choice for a revenue stream is cloud-hosting. Will you charge an upgrade fee or not? (for stand-alone)

We've already announced that 1Password 7 will be a paid upgrade for both Mac and Windows.

As I stated in other threads here, those options aren't going away. However, we will be very unlikely to make standalone licenses a front and center option. If you expect them to be right there next to the 1Password.com solutions, then I'm sorry but I don't anticipate seeing that happen.

This does not mean we don't offer the standalone licenses, it just means we aren't going to make them a focal point. Those who want them can get them and we haven't stopped anyone who has wanted them from obtaining them.

Kyle

AgileBits

Re: 1Password X: A look at the future of 1Password in the browser

#170

Post by AGKyle »

7ewis wrote: post #151
AGKyle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: I work for AgileBits, makers of 1Password Chrome on iOS is a unique situation. We offer two things for developers that integrate with 1Password: 1. Native application integration. The idea here is that apps that offer a login to their service/site can pull the username and password from 1Password, then insert it into their native UI controls and sign the user in 2. Web view integration. The idea here is t…

Thanks for the response. I thought the Chrome issue may have be something like you mentioned. The fact that you're here and replying is another reason why I want to like 1Password. I'd be shocked if a LastPass employee responded to me. Will try copying my passwords over tomorrow and see how I get on!

Absolutely my pleasure.

If you have trouble please reach out via our support page and shoot me an email. You can ask for me directly if you want and I'll be happy to work with you to see if we can determine if any issues you encounter are those that we can fix or not.

Happy to help however I can. But thank you for being willing to listen and converse. We always love hearing from our users even if it's bad, it gives us something we can improve on.

Kyle

AgileBits

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