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Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

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Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#51

Post by jacquesm »

arethuza wrote: post #46
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Old' in Europe is more like this: http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/buildings/dscf1025.jpg.html or this: http://pics.ww.com/v/jacques/buildings/dscf1021.jpg.html The oldest parts of this building date from the 12th century: http://www.engelmunduskerkvelsenzuid.nl/images/foto_kerk_2.j... I've actually had an office in the 'carpet factory' in Toronto, which was an industrial revolution age textile mill, amazing building, w…

I'd have said "old" in Europe is more like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skara_Brae Skara Brae had been abandoned for 1200 years when Troy fell! For a building that can actually be used, how about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hercules (1900 years old) or the Pantheon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheon,_Rome (~1900 years). Although my favourite is Hagia Sophia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia…

Wow! That's more like 'ancient' ;)

The other buildings are in daily use though, which is why I used them instead of old Roman buildings and such.

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#52

Post by jacquesm »

Vivtek wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically you are right, but most of Europe sees that as the des-integration of Yugoslavia, which would make it a civil war rather than a war between nation states. And I think you meant to write Serbia instead of Yugoslavia. The other countries getting involved was to stop worse from happening. From what I know about that war it was basically something that was bound to happen the moment Tito kicked the bucket. He…

Very true, except for the statement that other countries' involvement stopped worse from happening - the Yugoslav arms industry was nonexistent, and while they most definitely would have kept on killing one another with rocks, I think they would have been less efficient. I agree with your larger point, though. The breakup of Yugoslavia was unfortunate - and inevitable - but it's kind of the exception that proves the…

> Very true, except for the statement that other countries' involvement stopped worse from happening

That's my impression from reading up on Srebrenica and a bunch of other places, it is very well possible that that is just an 'after the fact' impression, and since it happened the way it did we'll never know what would have happened had there been no intervention.

I know people on two sides in that story (Serbian and Croatian), and there is enough confusion even now that it's probably best they didn't meet. One thing this war did for me though was to open my eyes once and for all to the amount of propaganda in supposedly unbiased media.

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#53

Post by naa42 »

konve wrote: post #47
pvg wrote: post #8

http://sergey-larenkov.livejournal.com/ Original source, also lists the locations. There are also places in a number of these cities where limited amounts of the ww2 damage are left un-repaired, as a memorial and a live version of these composites.

Thank you. This one just... froze me. http://pics.livejournal.com/sergey_larenkov/pic/000029eg/

The photographer has started with the photographs of Saint-Petersburg/Leningrad, where he lives. The siege of Leningrad [1] was one of the most atrocious events of the WWII in Europe.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leningrad_Blockade

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#54

Post by pvg »

torpor wrote: post #39
pvg wrote: post #8

http://sergey-larenkov.livejournal.com/ Original source, also lists the locations. There are also places in a number of these cities where limited amounts of the ww2 damage are left un-repaired, as a memorial and a live version of these composites.

I live in Vienna, and am constantly on the lookout for signs of the old wars. Its a very sobering experience to walk down some street and then realize later that was the site of intense street fighting and massacre.

There are, I believe, buildings in Vienna where the bullet holes are left unplastered and the cyrillic graffiti left by Soviet soldiers can still be read. At least, there were when I lived there a decade or so ago.

And, of course, there is this

http://pics.livejournal.com/sergey_larenkov/pic/0005twp2

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#55

Post by ahoyhere »

palish wrote: post #6
JacobAldridge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and the fact that the last war to be fought on US soil pre-dates the invention of film. (US Civil War ended in 1865; film was invented by George Eastman in 1884) Lamenting the lack of architectural appreciation remains worthwhile.

Lamenting the lack of architectural appreciation remains worthwhile. Why? Humans conform nature to our needs. If we need a better building, why shouldn't we tear down an old one? All of the previous building's history will remain documented in, say, Wikipedia. This is probably just the worldview of an inexperienced kid though. (This is an honest question, not a statement of opinion.)

Come stay in Europe for a while. You'll see what we (Americans) are missing.

I, for one, love living in a >100-year-old apartment house with 3 ft thick walls and antique wavy glass windows.

On Sunday, we took a little trip to the countryside and roamed around a big castle built in 1100.

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#56

Post by NickPollard »

Vivtek wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically you are right, but most of Europe sees that as the des-integration of Yugoslavia, which would make it a civil war rather than a war between nation states. And I think you meant to write Serbia instead of Yugoslavia. The other countries getting involved was to stop worse from happening. From what I know about that war it was basically something that was bound to happen the moment Tito kicked the bucket. He…

Very true, except for the statement that other countries' involvement stopped worse from happening - the Yugoslav arms industry was nonexistent, and while they most definitely would have kept on killing one another with rocks, I think they would have been less efficient. I agree with your larger point, though. The breakup of Yugoslavia was unfortunate - and inevitable - but it's kind of the exception that proves the…

Now that it has broken up though, it does seem more positive for most of the previous members. Slovenia in particular is flourishing, my father worked there for a couple of years as part of an EU consultancy program to help modernise their economy, and they're now (according to wikipedia) at a GDP pp of 91% of the EU average, equivalent to South Korea or New Zealand.

I don't mean to gloss over that the balkans war was a terrible tragedy and was dreadful, but in the end I think they're going to come out better than they were before.

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#57

Post by ahoyhere »

pvg wrote: post #54
torpor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Vienna, and am constantly on the lookout for signs of the old wars. Its a very sobering experience to walk down some street and then realize later that was the site of intense street fighting and massacre.

There are, I believe, buildings in Vienna where the bullet holes are left unplastered and the cyrillic graffiti left by Soviet soldiers can still be read. At least, there were when I lived there a decade or so ago. And, of course, there is this http://pics.livejournal.com/sergey_larenkov/pic/0005twp2

Yes, there are a few. The most recent one I saw was in the 5th district, by the Schlossquadrat, on a backstreet. It had a plaque.

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#58

Post by brc »

grigory wrote: post #41
brc wrote: post #13

As remote as these images might feel, it's important to remember that some of our parents and grandparents went through this time. We always feel that the world is a peaceful place, but things got this bad in a very short space of time. Certainly in a shorter space of time than the war in Iraq has been going on. Things can fall apart very quickly, and the ones who fight for peace the most are those who can remember o…

While I agree with you, I wanted to provide a different perspective on how "remote" these images might seem. (I might be misunderstanding meaning you're putting behind that word. If so, please forgive me!) I'm Russian, and I grew up in different parts of USSR and later ex-USSR. All of my older relatives were, in some sense, involved in WW2. A big part of my family died during that time - some killed in fighting, some…

clarification : remote as in 'a long time ago'. As you say, the new generation sees black and white images and thinks it happened a long time ago.

I was specifically speaking about families like yours, who have lived through this, my point being it might feel remote to a young person raised on a life of peace and prosperity, but for many people it is very real.

Re: Ghost of WWII: 1940's meticulously overlaid on modern day

#59

Post by helveticaman »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
ugh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Europe can be quite proud of is how not only war was avoided during the last decades but also that war was made less likely over the decades. Suggesting that there could be war between Germany and France would be crazy today but certainly wasn’t always. That’s not just some flimsy anti-war sentiment which can change as new generations take over, that actually has something to do with lasting change initiated by…

Agreed, it's less likely. But idiots like Wilders are pushing the exact same buttons that a certain Austrian guy did and there is a real risk of him or someone like him rising to power. There are more and louder voices for the break-up of the EU in the last 3 years than I've ever heard in my lifetime.

Well, yeah, money's on the line.
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