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Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

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Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#101

Post by makapuf »

eesmith wrote: post #85
brians wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 2 vs 1 is really only a licensing issue. Python 1.4, from 1996, is not so different!

I agree that they were not very different languages. I did port code from Python 1.5.2 to Python 2. It required two minor changes, because "from X import *" was no longer allowed inside of a function. As a similar example, the transition from 2.5 to 2.6 meant that an assignment like "as = 0" (which might initialize a counter for the number of 'a's found) was no longer legal either.

Which makes me wonder how much of the incompatible changes that triggered the python 3000 change could have been introduced gradually. I mean 10 years could have been a long time to introduce small breaking changes one from future import at a time...

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#102

Post by mattbillenstein »

Figs wrote: post #43
fredley wrote: post #10

Good. The glacial migration from Python 2 to 3 is one of the worst things about an otherwise fantastic ecosystem. The tide is turning though, with Django having already dropped support for 2, and now with Numpy too hopefully Python 2 can be properly consigned to the history books. For people wondering why it's been like this for almost a decade(!) since Python 3.0 was released: Python 3.0 was actually terrible. It la…

Frankly, I still haven't seen a single reason to switch to Python3 beyond the fact that the original authors have gotten bored of providing security and bugfix updates and will stop in 2020. That's it. The only thing in the last decade or so of Python3's existence that even got me slightly interested in using it was asyncio, and after looking into it a bit, it frankly seems like more trouble than its worth. I know Py…

It's a bunch of smaller things, but I think the major one is the new compact dict implementation. Using less memory is a good thing and you basically get it for free using Python3.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#103

Post by takluyver »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #88
gigatexal wrote: post #86

Legacy python needs to be thought of as the plague and avoided. There’s so much awesome in the 3.5+ land of python. This is a good thing.

There’s really not anything major in 3 that’s not easily available via back ports in 2.7. Or else why do you think people aren’t bothering to pay the price to switch? This is also the reason maintainers are bringing out sticks. They realize the carrots just aren’t that tasty.

For any non-trivial project, most of the value of Python is the library ecosystem. So most of the 'carrots' are going to be libraries that are only available on Python 3. Like some future version of numpy, or pandas, or Django.

It's not a stick. You can keep using the old version if you prefer. There will just be some nice new features for people on Python 3.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#104

Post by hanley »

fredley wrote: post #10

Good. The glacial migration from Python 2 to 3 is one of the worst things about an otherwise fantastic ecosystem. The tide is turning though, with Django having already dropped support for 2, and now with Numpy too hopefully Python 2 can be properly consigned to the history books. For people wondering why it's been like this for almost a decade(!) since Python 3.0 was released: Python 3.0 was actually terrible. It la…

Django has not dropped Python2 yet. Django 2.0 will drop Python2 but that has not yet been released, and Django 1.11 (with Python2) support will be supported in LTS for several years.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#105

Post by crusso »

ben_w wrote: post #51

I hope Apple takes this as a reason to upgrade the default Python version installed on OS X, otherwise this could be a needless headache.

Yeah, the company that forced us to stop using ADB, floppy disks, CDs, and 10BT just can't seem to move away from Python 2.x.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#106

Post by Figs »

_wwz4 wrote: post #98
Figs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I still haven't seen a single reason to switch to Python3 beyond the fact that the original authors have gotten bored of providing security and bugfix updates and will stop in 2020. That's it. The only thing in the last decade or so of Python3's existence that even got me slightly interested in using it was asyncio, and after looking into it a bit, it frankly seems like more trouble than its worth. I know Py…

why on earth is it a good thing that people are trying to kill off Python2? Because the community is fragmented and that weakens language adoption, productivity, and enjoyment. The 2-3 schism in Python has been a pain to deal with for years. I use Python casually here and there, but I'm so sick of trying to do something quickly in Python and finding out that I'm on a machine that only has 2 but the module I need is o…

Sure, but the community could continue to reject Python3 instead as it had been doing for years. It seems like it is catching on a bit now, but I hadn't really seen any good reason for it other than the upcoming EOL.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#107

Post by alphaalpha101 »

derefr wrote: post #42
hyperbovine wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Matz being Japanese. I do my best to avoid Unicode at all costs because as a native English speaker ASCII was working out great for me.

Even if you're only shipping to an English-speaking US audience, people are still going to be throwing Unicode at your app. One word: emojis.

Emojis are utterly stupid and should never have been added to Unicode. They are not human language, at all.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#108

Post by crusso »

Figs wrote: post #106
_wwz4 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why on earth is it a good thing that people are trying to kill off Python2? Because the community is fragmented and that weakens language adoption, productivity, and enjoyment. The 2-3 schism in Python has been a pain to deal with for years. I use Python casually here and there, but I'm so sick of trying to do something quickly in Python and finding out that I'm on a machine that only has 2 but the module I need is o…

Sure, but the community could continue to reject Python3 instead as it had been doing for years . It seems like it is catching on a bit now, but I hadn't really seen any good reason for it other than the upcoming EOL.

Look at the statement from the numpy group:

The NumPy project has supported both Python 2 and Python 3 in parallel since 2010, and has found that supporting Python 2 is an increasing burden on our limited resources;

That's a real team saying that they just can't support 2 major versions of the language any longer.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#109

Post by CJefferson »

jhasse wrote: post #84
CJefferson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? No! Python 2 is only 17 years old. I can still run Java, C, C++ and Perl 5 (picking the first 4 languages that occur) that were written before then, with no problems.

Most C++ code wont compile for multiple reasons. For example using namespace std will result in errors if your code calls a function which is now part of std.

"most" is a great exaggeration. Yes, I few more names have been added. Also, it was always known adding namespace STD could cause problems. The same issues arise with import * in python.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#110

Post by CJefferson »

xapata wrote: post #61
CJefferson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? No! Python 2 is only 17 years old. I can still run Java, C, C++ and Perl 5 (picking the first 4 languages that occur) that were written before then, with no problems.

Which version? Aren't we on Java 9 now?

I can still run java 1.2 code fine (I say 1.2 as I have a bunch of 1.2 code).
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