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Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

injusticetoday.com

31–40 of 77 posts

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#32
post #28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,” I'm not really a proponent of cryptocurrency one way or the other, but I'm not sure it's any less absurd than generating money out of paper/textiles and ink. Drawing a picture of a $1 bill on an appropriately sized piece of material doesn't make it money, the supply, demand and efficiency of exchange does (and th…

Not just that but most money isn't even in the form of cash. It's literally just numbers on computers generated by the fed out of thin air. I'm not arguing if its right or wrong, but the author sure doesnt seem like they understand what theyre talking about.

> I'm not arguing if its right or wrong, but the author sure doesnt seem like they understand what theyre talking about.

I think they understand - to a point. It's just a few steps removed from what they normally think of, so is easily confused as "from thin air".

If they solicited people to draw doodles and simple cartoons in their free time and send them in, and they would auction those off, it wouldn't be "from thin air".

If you have your computer randomly generate fractals or images and send them in and people purchase the aesthetically pleasing ones, that's also not "from thin air". You've just traded your direct effort for use of your computer, which includes increased energy costs, and possibly slowed computer usage.

Replace images that are aesthetically pleasing for a bit of cryptographic hashing that helps the whole market, and you're where we're at today. Costs are there, they are just so small as to be easily lost in the rest of your costs, and the work is there, just abstract and automatic enough that it's easy to not realize it's work. Fundamentally it's no difference than everybody contributing a doodle though.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#33
post #27
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bail can serve that purpose. However, in many instances, it's really just an unreasonable tax on the poor.

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion on a website where most people probably make close to 100k but bail would be a lot more fair if it were based on total income.

Typical bails are so small already that I can't seem to get riled up over this particular "injustice".

An assault and battery charge will generally get you a $10K bail. Assuming the typical bondsman charges 10%, that's a measly $1,000 to be walking the streets again after assaulting someone.

I can already hear the stampede of justice troopers coming to tell me that $1,000 of emergency funds is too much to ask of your average accused criminal. How many of you would be amenable to say, a $100 charge for an ankle bracelet? Or a work-release program that allows them to attend work while waiting for trial?

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just donate the $ amount you'd have spent on a high end GPU and electricity. Faster, easier, less damage to the environment and doesn't require paying ATI or Nvidia more than you'd likely end up raising for the charity from your paltry mining haul... Or if you really want to use cryptocurrencies, buy some XMR/BTC/whatever off an exchange and donate that.

This uses the CPU, not the GPU. At current prices (depending on electricity price) it is more efficient to mine Monero than buy it outright, especially off an exchange (which incurs tx and trading costs).

Are you sure? If I'm reading this correctly https://whattomine.com/coins?utf8=%E2%9C%93&adapt_q_280x=0&a...

A 1080Ti will mine 0.0396XMR every 24hours (yielding $4.71 at current prices).

Presumably a CPU will fare significantly worse?

Exchange fees and tx costs are negligible (especially compared to the variation in elec prices depending on where you live).

Edit: as I understand it there's really no such thing as an ASIC resistant coin. Rather there's just an understanding that if ASICs get produced for XMR/VTC the devs will change the algorithm and fork the coin. If that's the case, surely these PoW coins are still susceptible to needing more and more hash power for a return as difficulty goes up (though perhaps less aggressively/rapidly compared to BTC?)?

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel the article does a suitable job of describing cryptocurrency mining such that a non-technical reader of injusticetoday.com would be adequately informed of the implications of installing the software?

>Once a user installs the app on their computer, it automatically harnesses a small amount of unused processing power to mine for cryptocurrency

It defaults to 25% CPU usage (and appears to be an electron app). Which I would've placed as greater than small.

https://github.com/thenewinquiry/bailbloc/blob/401cb4f288d88...

Concede the point that users would be making an informed (albeit minimally) decision.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#36

This is a bad idea for a couple of reasons: > “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,” Grayson Earle, who dreamed up and co-leads the project, told In Justice Today Does this person actually understand how crypto mining works? (Classy of them to take a swipe at the very technology enabling their project, by the way.) Even with a GTX1080 TI, at $0.12/kWH you…

Re: your first point

I don't think it's an attempted solution to a problem of efficient wealth transfer, I think it's an attempt to solve the issue of marketing a charity. Any charity's argument is essentially 'give us your wealth so we can do something good with it for people who do not have wealth'. Being able to reduce the cost for donators to something as low as the cost of electricity and the simplicity of downloading and running an app seems like a viable strategy for targeting a much wider audience of donators.

That's not to say it will succeed, or that there aren't other issues with this idea. But I do think that it is a good idea to try to target people who wouldn't be making a direct donation anyways.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this won't be a popular opinion on a website where most people probably make close to 100k but bail would be a lot more fair if it were based on total income.

Typical bails are so small already that I can't seem to get riled up over this particular "injustice". An assault and battery charge will generally get you a $10K bail. Assuming the typical bondsman charges 10%, that's a measly $1,000 to be walking the streets again after assaulting someone. I can already hear the stampede of justice troopers coming to tell me that $1,000 of emergency funds is too much to ask of your…

> again after assaulting someone.

They haven't been to court yet, they might be innocent.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#38
post #4
post #2

I just skimmed through the article, but the gist seems to be: download this app in large numbers, we will use your phone as bitcoin miners and use the mined coins to pay for bail. This is just so fucking absurd. The problem with bail is not a technological one, its a legislative one. I think Kamala Harris has taken the right steps and publicly stated how absurd it is that we jail so many fellow citizens for being poo…

You're right that policy needs to change but raising money via mining to actually free people can change those people's lives while we press for a legislative solution. It's an abstract problem for you but why merely sit around waiting for policy to change when people still suffer from bad policy? Added bonus: when there is energy around sidestepping bad policy that is another sign to legislators that the policy shou…

A better solution IMO would be to set up a trust/charity that provides bail money. Using technology to solve problems is great: I just don't think this is a particularly good solution. And Government agencies are very very conservative: if you pilot a program and it fails to deliver, they will essentially no longer listen to you.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#39
post #18

What if we take out the bail part and replace it with any charity? Mining Monero for charity. Thoughts?

They found an innovative way of raising money for a specific social issue, which is great. Now, this idea can inspire a lot of charities, but your comment may be interpreted as you don't care about the cause discussed here. Like the people replacing #BlackLivesMatter with #AllLivesMatter.

Maybe I care about other causes more, and want to ask about the prospects of this technology being used together with consumer choice?

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#40
Classic silicon valley-like thinking. Try to "disrupt" a system without understanding what it is for and why it was designed the way it was.

Bail is designed to prevent flight risk. It is set high enough that you'd have a hard time coming up with that much money without being forced to stay and appear. Having strangers pay your bail means you have no reason to stay. It makes bail jumping more likely. People having a hard time making bail is working-as-intended. It may be hard to swallow, but the system was purposefully designed this way. If you dislike it, write to your senator. Paying others' bail, even as inefficiently as this, will change nothing.

Very very inefficiently, actually. Mining on "unused cycles" on most PCs will generate negligibly small amounts of money. Even multiplied by the number of people foolish enough to enrol in this, it will still be a negligible amount of money. So who decides 1/10th of which criminal's bail this will go to?

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