Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail • Hacker News Board

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#11

Post by thisisit » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:32 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #6

pm90 wrote: post #2

I just skimmed through the article, but the gist seems to be: download this app in large numbers, we will use your phone as bitcoin miners and use the mined coins to pay for bail. This is just so fucking absurd. The problem with bail is not a technological one, its a legislative one. I think Kamala Harris has taken the right steps and publicly stated how absurd it is that we jail so many fellow citizens for being poo…

It uses Monero: https://bailbloc.thenewinquiry.com/about.html If it used Bitcoin it would clearly be absurd because CPUs are useless for mining. I don't pay enough attention to cybercoins to understand how worthwhile it will be to mine Monero.

And this from the whitepaper:

> We also compute a new XMR-to-USD price, modeled as a random walk (a monthly change is uniformly random on the interval [-5%, 5%]). For each miner, we also sample the XMR mined (directly as its estimated USD value) uniformly randomly from the interval [$1, $4]. This mined USD is added to the bail fund

Makes me wonder if they understand the volatility of cryptocurrency.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#12

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:35 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #11

maxerickson wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It uses Monero: https://bailbloc.thenewinquiry.com/about.html If it used Bitcoin it would clearly be absurd because CPUs are useless for mining. I don't pay enough attention to cybercoins to understand how worthwhile it will be to mine Monero.

And this from the whitepaper: > We also compute a new XMR-to-USD price, modeled as a random walk (a monthly change is uniformly random on the interval [-5%, 5%]). For each miner, we also sample the XMR mined (directly as its estimated USD value) uniformly randomly from the interval [$1, $4]. This mined USD is added to the bail fund Makes me wonder if they understand the volatility of cryptocurrency.

[deleted]

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#13

Post by cloakandswagger » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:37 PM UTC

This is a bad idea for a couple of reasons:

> “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,” Grayson Earle, who dreamed up and co-leads the project, told In Justice Today

Does this person actually understand how crypto mining works? (Classy of them to take a swipe at the very technology enabling their project, by the way.) Even with a GTX1080 TI, at $0.12/kWH you'd be lucky to make $0.01 of profit per hour mining Monero. Most people will be mining at a loss, meaning a direct donation would be more efficient.

Secondly, the whole idea of raising a general fund to pay the bail for accused criminals is absurd. How are the recipients selected? What happens when they actually do abscond and the money from the fund is lost?

Bail serves an important purpose in mitigating flight risks. Why don't the authors of this project work on a technology solution that accomplishes that without collateral? Say, a cheap GPS tracking device or smart phone app.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#14

Post by cloakandswagger » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

SippinLean wrote: post #10

davidkuhta wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree and was thinking the same thing about it being some sort of 'bail contract'. I stopped reading after: > If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems impossible , that’s because it is. There are no free lunches. If you're looking for a distributed computing initiative to support:…

Correct, generating money out of thin air is absurd. Not sure what that straw man has to do with being rewarded for mining cryptocurrencies and exchanging them for fiat though. That is clearly very possible and often profitable.

Even being generous you'd be lucky to generate a $0.25/day profit mining Monero with a normal desktop. Factor in wide variations in electricity cost, the wear on PC components and fluctuating currency value and this is simply not practical.

This idea is predicated on an intellectually dishonest premise that mining crypto is "free". Naive do-gooders will run this app without realizing the hidden costs.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#15

Post by SippinLean » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:42 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #14

SippinLean wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, generating money out of thin air is absurd. Not sure what that straw man has to do with being rewarded for mining cryptocurrencies and exchanging them for fiat though. That is clearly very possible and often profitable.

Even being generous you'd be lucky to generate a $0.25/day profit mining Monero with a normal desktop. Factor in wide variations in electricity cost, the wear on PC components and fluctuating currency value and this is simply not practical. This idea is predicated on an intellectually dishonest premise that mining crypto is "free". Naive do-gooders will run this app without realizing the hidden costs.

It is predicated on the honest premise that mining Monero is likely profitable.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#16

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #13

This is a bad idea for a couple of reasons: > “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,” Grayson Earle, who dreamed up and co-leads the project, told In Justice Today Does this person actually understand how crypto mining works? (Classy of them to take a swipe at the very technology enabling their project, by the way.) Even with a GTX1080 TI, at $0.12/kWH you…

[deleted]

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#17

Post by mvarner » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #13

This is a bad idea for a couple of reasons: > “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,” Grayson Earle, who dreamed up and co-leads the project, told In Justice Today Does this person actually understand how crypto mining works? (Classy of them to take a swipe at the very technology enabling their project, by the way.) Even with a GTX1080 TI, at $0.12/kWH you…

Re: your second and third points, they're donating directly to an already established bail fund that's been around for a few years and have seen 90% of the people they bail out show up to trial. The authors don't choose who the recipients are, but it seems the flight risk of the people selected is pretty low.

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#18

Post by EGreg » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

What if we take out the bail part and replace it with any charity?

Mining Monero for charity.

Thoughts?

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#19

Post by davidkuhta » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

SippinLean wrote: post #15

cloakandswagger wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even being generous you'd be lucky to generate a $0.25/day profit mining Monero with a normal desktop. Factor in wide variations in electricity cost, the wear on PC components and fluctuating currency value and this is simply not practical. This idea is predicated on an intellectually dishonest premise that mining crypto is "free". Naive do-gooders will run this app without realizing the hidden costs.

It is predicated on the honest premise that mining Monero is likely profitable.

Do you feel the article does a suitable job of describing cryptocurrency mining such that a non-technical reader of injusticetoday.com would be adequately informed of the implications of installing the software?

Re: Cryptocurrency Is the Next Frontier in the Quest to Abolish Cash Bail

#20

Post by kbenson » Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 7:05 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #13

This is a bad idea for a couple of reasons: > “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,” Grayson Earle, who dreamed up and co-leads the project, told In Justice Today Does this person actually understand how crypto mining works? (Classy of them to take a swipe at the very technology enabling their project, by the way.) Even with a GTX1080 TI, at $0.12/kWH you…

> > “If generating money out of thin air by using a computer program seems absurd, that’s because it is,”

I'm not really a proponent of cryptocurrency one way or the other, but I'm not sure it's any less absurd than generating money out of paper/textiles and ink. Drawing a picture of a $1 bill on an appropriately sized piece of material doesn't make it money, the supply, demand and efficiency of exchange does (and the demand is often generated by a backing from a government, but doesn't have to be). We had private bank notes long before we had government backed notes.