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Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

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Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#21

Post by FLUX-YOU »

devnull42 wrote: post #2

I saw a company asking for 10 years OpenStack development experience. The initial release of OpenStack was 7 years ago. Cant make this shit up.

I've seen one company asking for Ph.Ds in Math for a non-Math/Data/Science position. They said they put that on there because they had a bad experience in the past from someone who couldn't code but looked good on a resume. They wanted to pay $75-85k for that position. But then decided to take the interview anyway, so it clearly wasn't an actual requirement.

That's really the issue: job postings drive what developers "ought" to know because they should indicate some kind of business demand for individual skills. But there's no feedback to punish companies who scribble whatever they want on their job postings, so they continue to add new line items without verifying that what they're doing right now is working. It just leads to confusion and wasted time finding out what they actually want. If they can't find someone, they obviously go "Developer shortage! No one has the 50 skills w/ 5 years of experience on our job posting!"

Compound that with resume prose (pushed by people charging for resume review) that sometimes goes overboard in its effort to make something out of very little and we have a system where no actual communication takes place until you're in front of someone.

Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#22

Post by SatvikBeri »

tareqak wrote: post #18
Eliezer wrote: post #6

Nobody in this Twitter thread seems to know or understand what a commons problem is. Training up new devs is good for the industry, sure. But your own company doesn't capture all of that value. If you are trying to solve this problem by yelling at companies to be more altruistic, then, as previously stated, you don't know or understand what a commons problem is.

From what I understand, the issue that describe happens because the company doing the training doesn't re-evaluate the now trained developer as more experienced, and therefore, more valuable and deserving of better compensation. A junior is a junior, until they're not. Pretending that the now trained new developer is still worth the same is foolish, but that's exactly what some employers do to their own detriment.

So, say you hire a junior developer and spend a year training them to the next level of seniority, at significant training / opportunity cost expense.

They now command a much higher market rate - you can pay the higher salary and retain them, or not and they'll leave. Either way, the company is out the training cost relative to hiring someone senior from the beginning.

(I say this as someone who hires 90% junior people and trains them. I think there are good reasons to do so, but the commons problem is real.)

Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#23

Post by logfromblammo »

tankenmate wrote: post #4
devnull42 wrote: post #2

I saw a company asking for 10 years OpenStack development experience. The initial release of OpenStack was 7 years ago. Cant make this shit up.

It's up there with, we need a code ninja 10x developer at 60% of market rates.

Those ads make me want a 10x real ultimate power ninja to silently enter their offices and dose every last executive and HR employee with a combination laxative-emetic, video record the aftermath, then silently slip away.

But I'm cheap too, so if that ninja could do it at 60% of the going rate for mass poisonings, that would be great. Their clan is also going to need 200 years of experience in undetectable infiltration, 300 years in poisons and venoms, and 500 years in absolute client confidentiality. Thanks.

Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#24

Post by K0nserv »

vinceguidry wrote: post #19
strictnein wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees aren't fish or trees. If you train an employee and treat them well they stay with your company longer. Your training increases the value the provide to you. Unlike a fish, which is sold and consumed one day and needs to be replaced the next.

> If you train an employee and treat them well they stay with your company longer. That's a huge assumption.

Seems fairly rational. I recon two of the most common reasons people leave are boredom and unsatisfying career progression. So all you have to do is ensure people have interesting work and pay/promote them at a rate that is competitive with their option of switching jobs to achieve that goal.

Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#25

Post by talmand »

vinceguidry wrote: post #19
strictnein wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees aren't fish or trees. If you train an employee and treat them well they stay with your company longer. Your training increases the value the provide to you. Unlike a fish, which is sold and consumed one day and needs to be replaced the next.

> If you train an employee and treat them well they stay with your company longer. That's a huge assumption.

Well, I'm fairly certain that treating them badly doesn't guarantee that employees will stay. I'd rather try the huge assumption.

Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#27

Post by s73ver_ »

Eliezer wrote: post #6

Nobody in this Twitter thread seems to know or understand what a commons problem is. Training up new devs is good for the industry, sure. But your own company doesn't capture all of that value. If you are trying to solve this problem by yelling at companies to be more altruistic, then, as previously stated, you don't know or understand what a commons problem is.

I think it's more that, the companies are the ones complaining, so if they're not willing to be part of the solution, then we don't care about their problems.

If they don't want to train, then that's fine, but then they don't get to complain about the lack of developers.

Re: Tech Industry: “We desperately need more developers”

#28

Post by s73ver_ »

vinceguidry wrote: post #19
strictnein wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees aren't fish or trees. If you train an employee and treat them well they stay with your company longer. Your training increases the value the provide to you. Unlike a fish, which is sold and consumed one day and needs to be replaced the next.

> If you train an employee and treat them well they stay with your company longer. That's a huge assumption.

I don't think so. How many people do you know who feel they are being treated well leave their companies?
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