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Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

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Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you’re getting downvoted has less to do with your argument and more to do with your tone. The strawman doesn’t help either.

Can you clarify the issue with parent's tone? I only read a set of rhetorical questions that made a slight appeal to emotion, which seems appropriate considering that the future of peoples' livelihoods are being discussed.

I reread it and didn't sense that tone at all. I wonder if it's possible the parent edited, because it seemed incredibly sarcastic earlier.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#272
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My children are in a Montessori school. There is no evidence that children from most 'alternative' teaching systems do better or worse than those in 'regular' schools. My children like the school and it's conveniently located, so we have no intention of changing; but it's not the teaching system that makes or breaks a student (well, the more loony systems like Steiner schools have documented worse outcomes than other…

There is no evidence that children from most 'alternative' teaching systems do better or worse than those in 'regular' schools. I'd be interested to know more about that - could I ask where you learned that?

There's a lot of research on this; I read a lot about it procrastinating in the university library when I was wrapping up my law degree, so that was 5 or 6 years ago. I don't remember details. Probably if you start on google scholar and make your way from there, you'll find a lot of studies.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#273
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are five electricians in town, they each make $40/hour. They have a hard time finding qualified apprentices. After education, there are 7 electricians. The same 5 electricians still make $40/hour, but the two new electricians make $25/hour. Turns out there's a previously unserved market for a cheaper and less experienced electrician.

Or... there wasn't much of an unserved market, and all seven electricians make $30/hr.

Sure.

(I'm not sure about the specifics of whether everyone's wages go down or the two new electrician's can't find work, but for the purposes of an anecdote it doesn't matter.)

But in the bigger picture this will be a feedback signal to the next class of electricians and they will decide whether to stick with electrician school or look for some other demand gap to fill.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#274
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 6-year national college graduation rate is 59% for White students, 51% for Hispanic students, 46% for Black females, and 35% for Black males."[1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_achievement_gap_in_the_...

There are racial differences with pretty much everything in the US. Are benefits for poor people racist because they disproportionally help black people? Is having a required entrance average for universities racist because black people have statistically lower grades/graduation rates? Sure, if you are choosing to filter applicants based on criteria where the only effect of the filtering is changing the racial distri…

I hate to burst your bubble, but yes, those are all evidence of systemic racism.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#276
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and many STEM jobs that once provided on the job training and needed a bachelors now require a PhD.

Thus we get garbage doctorates. A doctorate was supposed to be the culmination of a scientific career.

Not just garbage doctorates, even PhDs from top 10/20 schools in STEM fields that did reasonable interesting research go off to be process engineers or other non-scientist positions that likely don't need a PhD.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#277
Let’s see....

Learn programming in a trade school or study English at an Ivy League school?

My bet would be the programmer will make more money more consistently across a large number of people than the other. They will also probably have less school debt.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#278
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's amazing to me is that there are people who don't feel like they're capable of changing their own doorknob. (I get it; there are some people who would rather just pay, but surely some of these people just don't feel like they could manage this task. That's wild.)

I live in a duplex and my neighbors are always impressed when I do simple things like fix cat5 cable caps, screw/caulk down a loose doorframe trim, or sometimes even just for having basic tools at all. When I was installing my blinds when I first moved in, a group of neighbors from down the street were walking by and asked me (through the open window) if I was the hired help (guess cus I looked too young to be the ow…

The ikea thing is different. (ok, you’re probably right for many people, but...). I find their issue to be that it’s easy to miss a step, and if you do, you often don’t catch it until 30 minutes later. And then you have to undo everything back to that missed step.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#279
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have statistics for teachers ? That's just plain stupid to be honest.

No less stupid than rating schools by acceptance to universities. Gap-year and trade schools should be encourage whenever they make sense. But the rating does not incentivise looking out for kids interests. Another fun fact - one of the points to certify a school as "gymnasium" is attendance. My school was certifying for that status during my last year. One of the vice-principals was nicknamed "12th graders attendanc…

In my high school/gymnasium students needed to bring a signed excuse from parents if they missed a class -- even if they were already 18! -- and too many absences would automatically disqualify the course even if you had a good reason, such as being sick. No overseer really needed for persuading students to attend class.

Re: Trade school, not 4-year college, is a better bet to solve the US income gap

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That shouldn't stop the companies from hiring untrained people to just work from them. But it would be nice if there was an "official" apprenticeship for young people as a valid alternative to a college degree. And that shouldn't be some specific training for some random company, but lead to a comparable skill level so you can work everywhere in the country in that field.

>That shouldn't stop the companies from hiring untrained people to just work from them. Why does a wealthy incumbent need to be protected by having the state outlaw anyone from working without the wealthy incumbent's permission?

What? How is it stopping anyone from working or hiring?
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