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Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

nytimes.com

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Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#41

Post by ChrisBland »

Posibyte wrote: post #35
ChrisBland wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we didn't prevent it, then you'd be stupid to not go to college take out $120k in loans and then declare bankruptcy at 22 prior to taking a job (you'd have no income and no assets). You'd be 29 by the time the bankruptcy fell off your credit report, meaning credit might be tight in those years to buy a car or house, but you'd be debt free - something many people in their 20s and 30s would gladly do if they were gi…

The bank should be entirely at fault here. If they looked at a student's request for a loan that said I'm taking a basket-weaving class at Cornell and I need $120k to attend then it's the bank's prerogative to look into the student's past performance, the rate of return for basket weavers, and the bias to which Cornell would prompt higher or lower returns in this area. Just like any area of lending, it's on the bank…

You and I are the bank, these loans are federal, no private bank is giving these loans out, you and I are and we are footing the bill when the natural default occurs

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#42

Post by alexanderstears »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #30

>In Miami, a law firm working for Transworld brought a lawsuit last year against Antonio Fuentes, seeking payment on a $13,356 student loan. With interest and fees, Mr. Fuentes now owed $25,322.31, according to the complaint. >“Many judges take the attitude: ‘I paid my student loans. You ought to pay yours. Don’t give me this nonsense about technicalities.’” That judges are even allowed to do this is awful. Why shoul…

Because there isn't enough skin in the game. Judges don't get punished for bad decisions and Transworld was allowed to mislead the courts for too long.

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#43

Post by xeromal »

Posibyte wrote: post #35
ChrisBland wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we didn't prevent it, then you'd be stupid to not go to college take out $120k in loans and then declare bankruptcy at 22 prior to taking a job (you'd have no income and no assets). You'd be 29 by the time the bankruptcy fell off your credit report, meaning credit might be tight in those years to buy a car or house, but you'd be debt free - something many people in their 20s and 30s would gladly do if they were gi…

The bank should be entirely at fault here. If they looked at a student's request for a loan that said I'm taking a basket-weaving class at Cornell and I need $120k to attend then it's the bank's prerogative to look into the student's past performance, the rate of return for basket weavers, and the bias to which Cornell would prompt higher or lower returns in this area. Just like any area of lending, it's on the bank…

I agree that our student loans are junk and need a revamp, but if banks only loaned for the rate of return of a job, we'd have engineers and no one else. There is something to said for having artists and philosophers are "useless" as their degrees are perceived to be.

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#44

Post by exabrial »

Good Lord. There are two issues with college tuition:

The first problem is people are not shopping around for a college education. There are thousands of incredible colleges around the USA that will give you the same or better education as a pricey school on the coasts.

I did my easiest credits at Bulter County Community, then Wichita State University, before finishing up at Kansas State University. I only took on about $8k of debt for a degree in Information Systems (computer science with an emphasis in business classes) from their engineering school (which is one of 24 schools that has a nuclear reactor on campus). K-State itself was a hoot to go to, it's a great little school in a swanky town isolated by 2 hours of prairie grass.

The second problem is people are paying way too much for a nearly useless degrees that some colleges offer. You can get a degree in "music therapy" or "insurance administration", both of which a motivated individual could also get on-the-job training for.

Somewhere there should be a list of "Degrees you should not get if you're going to pay more than $x for" to help bright-eyed high school kids make good decisions.

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#45

Post by ChrisBland »

xeromal wrote: post #43
Posibyte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank should be entirely at fault here. If they looked at a student's request for a loan that said I'm taking a basket-weaving class at Cornell and I need $120k to attend then it's the bank's prerogative to look into the student's past performance, the rate of return for basket weavers, and the bias to which Cornell would prompt higher or lower returns in this area. Just like any area of lending, it's on the bank…

I agree that our student loans are junk and need a revamp, but if banks only loaned for the rate of return of a job, we'd have engineers and no one else. There is something to said for having artists and philosophers are "useless" as their degrees are perceived to be.

I couldn't agree more, but should credit hours cost the same for engineering vs the arts? Could programs be 2 years instead of 4? I don't understand why we try to put education in this one size fits all bucket. The goal should be to provide more access to education at a lower cost. That is the deliverable we should be striving for IMO

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#46

Post by [deleted] »

amorphid wrote: post #11
geggam wrote: post #6

Slavery is illegal. Letting people enslave themselves however is not. An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work for a particular employer for a fixed time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a s…

Indentured servitude is also illegal.

[deleted]

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#47

Post by whatshisface »

xeromal wrote: post #43
Posibyte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank should be entirely at fault here. If they looked at a student's request for a loan that said I'm taking a basket-weaving class at Cornell and I need $120k to attend then it's the bank's prerogative to look into the student's past performance, the rate of return for basket weavers, and the bias to which Cornell would prompt higher or lower returns in this area. Just like any area of lending, it's on the bank…

I agree that our student loans are junk and need a revamp, but if banks only loaned for the rate of return of a job, we'd have engineers and no one else. There is something to said for having artists and philosophers are "useless" as their degrees are perceived to be.

But when an artist goes 100k in debt, we don't get an artist. We get a desperate barista.

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#48

Post by Thorncorona »

geggam wrote: post #6

Slavery is illegal. Letting people enslave themselves however is not. An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work for a particular employer for a fixed time. The contract often lets the employer sell the labor of an indenturee to a third party. Indenturees usually enter into an indenture for a s…

That's a terrible argument. Even in the 1600s where indentured servitude was commonplace, the system was essentially slavery, with comparable death rates. Hell America had a rebellion because of white slavery - Bacon's rebellion.

We got rid of slavery because of the social impact and also because of the moral implications. There's no reason to bring it back in another form.

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#49

Post by Posibyte »

xeromal wrote: post #43
Posibyte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank should be entirely at fault here. If they looked at a student's request for a loan that said I'm taking a basket-weaving class at Cornell and I need $120k to attend then it's the bank's prerogative to look into the student's past performance, the rate of return for basket weavers, and the bias to which Cornell would prompt higher or lower returns in this area. Just like any area of lending, it's on the bank…

I agree that our student loans are junk and need a revamp, but if banks only loaned for the rate of return of a job, we'd have engineers and no one else. There is something to said for having artists and philosophers are "useless" as their degrees are perceived to be.

Completely agree. I don't think banks should be operating like they do now. It's almost charitable in how it works. Banks, who are driven by profit, give out these loans at a massive risk.

I stand by my point because banks shouldn't be in this position. People aren't companies and they shouldn't be looked at in terms of returns. I (and this is my completely personal opinion) think either education should be free or only the government should provide education assistance.

Re: Student Debt Lawsuits Are a Lucrative Business

#50

Post by Posibyte »

mattnewton wrote: post #39
Posibyte wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank should be entirely at fault here. If they looked at a student's request for a loan that said I'm taking a basket-weaving class at Cornell and I need $120k to attend then it's the bank's prerogative to look into the student's past performance, the rate of return for basket weavers, and the bias to which Cornell would prompt higher or lower returns in this area. Just like any area of lending, it's on the bank…

That’s a great way to cut people from disadvantaged backgrounds out of college degrees, and therefore social mobility.

I agree fully, and as I commented above, I don't personally believe this is a place for banks to be for that reason. It's shoehorning a profit-focused entity almost as a charity in my eyes. It incentivizes banks to go after borrowers as if they were a failed business when in reality they're just trying to improve themselves (which is good for all of us).
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