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The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

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Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#131

Post by omginternets »

bertil wrote: post #86
omginternets wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to say "danger, danger" but for another reason. I think a whole generation of fitbit users are going to be horrified when their insurance premiums go up based on data that was purchased by insurers. If Apple watch starts making a health play, I don't see why it would be any different.

Apple has been aggressively branding as the company that does not need to sell your data because their margins on hardware allow them to. It might not always be the case but they can future-proof that claim by keeping that data on your device or protect it using differential privacy. What might happen if health plans become habitually based on tracking (which I expect will be the case) is that having an Apple watch (…

Typical PR spin-doctored hogwash. They don't need it, arguably, but they sure as hell want it, as evidenced by:

1. The extremely lucrative market of personal data

2. Their continued collection of such personal data

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#132

Post by Eric_WVGG »

brlewis wrote: post #109
maxerickson wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a legal structure in place that would prevent a new owner from rewriting the privacy policy and doing whatever the hell they wanted?

I'm not a lawyer. In high school I took a class that covered some aspects of contract law. Want my speculation? I do know something about the financial incentives, though. Fitbit's users are its customers. Insurers and employers are a small part of revenue. The people Fitbit needs to keep happy are users.

Ehhh... one of the big fights a decade ago was over DRM being built into CPUs and displays to the behest of entertainment companies. (They seem to have won that fight, as I now cannot find a lightning to hdmi cable that is “compatible” with Netflix.) During the years over which that controversy raged, I was always struck by the fact that companies like Microsoft and Intel were bending over backward to cater to Hollywood, not their customers.

Fitbit seems like a cool company and I don’t personally distrust them, but I don’t think that particular argument holds water.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#133

Post by rhinoceraptor »

brlewis wrote: post #113
smnscu wrote: post #73

The only downside to the Apple Watch in my book is the short battery life which should theoretically make it impractical for sleep tracking. I was recently stupefied to discover Nokia Steel [1] and how virtually unknown it is to the general public, my former self included. It comes with great design, no bullshit digital screen, the usual tracking features, and most importantly seems like it's a return to form for Nok…

The other impediment to sleep tracking with Apple Watch is its heart rate measurements. One can get acceptable sleep tracking just from accelerometer data, but to get something like Fitbit's sleep tracking you need to measure heart-rate variability. Apple Watch's intermittent heart rate measurements (outside of workout mode) might make certain health metrics difficult to gather without killing the battery. Theoretica…

The apple watch measures heart rate every 5 minutes, and it does do HRV as of watch OS 4.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#135

Post by jads »

RBerenguel wrote: post #80
downandout wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly possible, though I have noticed more quirky behavior than just this - the stand goal was just the most amusing one to me and that is why I posted that particular one here. I sometimes meet the exercise goal on a very sedentary day, while I don't meet it when I vigorously exercise, etc. I have a two story house and I climb and descend the steps probably 15+ times per day, yet for the current week , it…

When I work from home I have a standing desk, and it looks like the watch does not pick me as standing, so I almost never reach the standing goal there

The stand goal is measured by standing up and moving around for at least one minute https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204517.

> Even if you stand all day, you still need to move around.

The purpose of the standing goal isn't just to be stood up, it's to stretch your legs and get you away from a desk (it doubles as a good reminder to take a break from your computer screen).

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#136

Post by kejaed »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #129
smnscu wrote: post #73

The only downside to the Apple Watch in my book is the short battery life which should theoretically make it impractical for sleep tracking. I was recently stupefied to discover Nokia Steel [1] and how virtually unknown it is to the general public, my former self included. It comes with great design, no bullshit digital screen, the usual tracking features, and most importantly seems like it's a return to form for Nok…

I use my series 2 for sleep tracking and as an alarm clock every night. The battery lasts for ~2 days, and since the battery is so small it charges really quickly, so topping it off before/after bed for a few minutes is enough so it's always charged.

What app do you use for sleep tracking?

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#137

Post by jads »

bamboozled wrote: post #84
RBerenguel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I work from home I have a standing desk, and it looks like the watch does not pick me as standing, so I almost never reach the standing goal there

How would it actually know if you're standing, especially if you're hands are on a desk? Heart rate, blood pressure?

Most likely that the absence of movement data is perceived as sitting/standing. Since the stand goal requires standing and moving for at least one minute (the purpose of the stand goal is more to get you moving for at least a minute rather than just stand up - just standing up doesn't count), if you haven't moved for a while (50 minutes in an hour) then it gives you a nudge to do so.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#138

Post by jads »

kevinherron wrote: post #101

I went to sleep wearing my Apple Watch one night and awoke to a few hundred irregular heartbeat notifications. They weren’t legit. The watch just can’t get a good heart rate reading if it’s not situated perfectly on your wrist, and while sleeping it was pushed one way or another often enough to be useless.

That's probably the case with all HR monitors, no? If it's not securely in place, any HR monitor will have the same problem. I bought a knock-off velcro wrist strap for my watch and it keeps it in place. I have mixed success with traditional watch straps as my wrist size always seems to be in-between notches.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#139

Post by rhinoceraptor »

kejaed wrote: post #136
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use my series 2 for sleep tracking and as an alarm clock every night. The battery lasts for ~2 days, and since the battery is so small it charges really quickly, so topping it off before/after bed for a few minutes is enough so it's always charged.

What app do you use for sleep tracking?

Sleep Watch, it runs automatically so I don't have to bother with it. I'm not sure how accurate it is, though.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#140

Post by brandonb »

omginternets wrote: post #77
justinjlynn wrote: post #11

Danger, danger: heavily regulated waters ahead! Remember these words well: "This statement has not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."

I came to say "danger, danger" but for another reason. I think a whole generation of fitbit users are going to be horrified when their insurance premiums go up based on data that was purchased by insurers. If Apple watch starts making a health play, I don't see why it would be any different.

(I'm a study author and worked on HealthCare.gov rescue team)

The good news is you're protected by the law. Under the Affordable Care Act, insurers can only vary your rate based on your age, location, and whether you smoke. They can't take into account prior health conditions or biomarkers, including novel biomarkers measured on wearables.

Every major Republican "repeal & replace" bill has preserved this part of the law, called "rating factor limitations", although sometimes they vary the constants. For example, the Paul Ryan plan let insurers charge the elderly 5x more than the young, compared to the current law of 3x, but otherwise preserved the rule that insurers can only vary rate based on age, location, and whether you smoke.

What insurers can do is offer you a 30% (maximum) premium rebate for taking healthy actions, like going for a run, enrolling in a diabetes prevention program, or getting your blood pressure checked. But they can't tie the rebate to the outcome of the test (health status), only your participation.

This is a good point, though, and shows a case where regulation helps technology have a positive impact. If people fear their insurance premiums will go up, they'll avoid all forms of diagnosis, not just Apple Watch.

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