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There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

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Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#281

Post by gsich »

Nuance wrote: post #113
userbinator wrote: post #48

With current and older devices working perfectly well, and new devices being even less serviceable and more user-hostile with greater efforts towards planned obolescence, is it any wonder that people just aren't "upgrading" any more? I don't consider this a problem, but a sign of an ecosystem that is gaining stability. In fact I'd say it's even better, from an e-waste perspective, that the amount of churn has decreas…

How are you so certain obsolescence is planned?

No updates for Android devices pretty much confirms this.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#282

Post by gsich »

ekianjo wrote: post #52
2-4-Flinching wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only impact? You are a walking vulnerability. KRACK, Blueborne, just to name a few recently highly publicized vulnerabilities. You are like the perfect exploit, just waiting to get pwned. You are, Bill Harper.

Most wifi router vendors have STILL not fixed the KRACK vulnerability. Looks like most companies dont care about user security at all.

So? The issue is on the client side. Unless you use wlan client, or repeater stuff with your AP.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#283

Post by WillReplyfFood »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #152
tpallarino wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who goes as long as possible without performing updates, this is exactly the reason why. Example: Last time I updated my iPhone, the music app got an update and now they are trying to shove iCloud down my throat. Not to mention needless UI changes when I was more than satisfied with how it was before.

I understand this entirely, but there are some pretty bad iOS vulnerabilities out in the wild now (e.g. KRACK wpa2). It’s pretty dangerous to avoid updates nowadays. I think what needs to happen across the industry is a complete decoupling of “feature” from security patching. Too many people are exposed because of exactly the kind of unwanted UI upgrades you describe.

Better have a bricked phone but secured phone? That is basically your argument?

Security is used to euthanize perfectly working systems and harass users for money. Security has become dangerous for the user in that aspect.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#284

Post by amelius »

WillReplyfFood wrote: post #283
alphonsegaston wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand this entirely, but there are some pretty bad iOS vulnerabilities out in the wild now (e.g. KRACK wpa2). It’s pretty dangerous to avoid updates nowadays. I think what needs to happen across the industry is a complete decoupling of “feature” from security patching. Too many people are exposed because of exactly the kind of unwanted UI upgrades you describe.

Better have a bricked phone but secured phone? That is basically your argument? Security is used to euthanize perfectly working systems and harass users for money. Security has become dangerous for the user in that aspect.

That's one reason I'm still hoping for a Linux/Firefox phone.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#285

Post by pantalaimon »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #151
kuschku wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically yes, but that's often not good enough either. Lots of third party code OEMs end up with in their kernels, unmaintainable, and often incompatible with anything.

Now waitasec... I own Crappy unupdated Android one of. And the drivers use the Linux kernel. Last I checked, they need to release source for their drivers. So where is it? And why can't we upstream those patches and "fix" android?

> And why can't we upstream those patches and "fix" android?

It's a lot of work, who is supposed to do that?

Some bits of the N900 kernel are still in the process of being upstreamed afaik.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#286

Post by ben_w »

junkscience2017 wrote: post #229
staticassertion wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are willing to accept the risk that the NSA is listening in on them. Most people are not willing to accept the risk of an arbitrary person being able to steal their identity.

That already happened as a result of Equifax. Your SSN is no longer secret...so rejoice, you are free to choose whatever phone you like!

Like 95% of the world, I don’t have an SSN.

Even if every American owns one of those outdated Android phones, 2/3rds of the phones would still have to be owned by people who don’t have SSNs.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#287

Post by mschuster91 »

fencepost wrote: post #194
mschuster91 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why are printer drivers still a thing? Apple introduced AirPrint for iOS 4 back in 2010 and for MacOS a few years later. Have you looked at the unimaginable amount of crap a typical Windows printer driver forces upon you? It's not just the driver, it's usually also a stripped down license of some image editor, an "update agent" (because Windows 7 does not have an "app store" or a centralized driver distribution…

Your problem may be more your choice of vendors than anything else. HP's big printers (e.g. M600 family) are still pretty nice, but I've started to avoid them for anything smaller, and god help you if you look at the truly low print volume stuff from them.

HP printers are excellent in terms of hardware build quality: the Z2100 plotter in my company is a decade old, of which it stood 6 years around unused - gave it a full cleaning, new cartridges and heads a new carriage belt and it was back to mint condition. Oh, and there are still new cartridges and ink tanks made, and there are still recent drivers.

And for most of the consumer gear from HP it's the same: even for really old stuff you can find new tanks/cartridges, drivers for new and old OSes and I've yet to see a HP printer fail in a way I could not fix myself with a service manual.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#288

Post by ben_w »

dilap wrote: post #239
urda wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iPhones shove updates down your throat as a user. And we have the monster that was Windows XP because of users thinking "updates" are "forced" down throats. iOS is correctly celebrated for having such a high adoption of the "latest and greatest", and certainly hasn't become the demon that is the unpatched Android landscape. So thankfully, from NetSec to the end user, it's a fantastic thing that iOS keeps devices mo…

I agree, but it is true that newer updates dramatically slow down older hardware.

I thought this had been tested recently and shown not true? A psychological illusion or something? I’ve never noticed any significant, let alone dramatic, speed change on any given device from iOS 3 on the original iPad onwards.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#289

Post by ekianjo »

Spivak wrote: post #154
ekianjo wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have no incentives to do so. I would like Samsung to make it into a business. Have folks pay 5 dollars per year if they want to get ongoing security updates for older devices. I would pay in an instant.

For reference Red Hat charges around $425/yr for extended support. Obviously the situation is different because Red Hat has a lot more software to support but they also have a fewer products and more customers that care enough to buy it. But I think the upshot is that a $5/yr extended support contract is a bit of a pipedream. Just as an order of magnitude estimate we're assuming that it's about 100 times more effort…

Google is maintaining Android so why would you assume it would cost massive amount of resources for Samsung to port or backport some security fixes now and then? The comparaison with Debian does not make sense.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#290

Post by Rotareti »

joelthelion wrote: post #268

That's why I only buy phones that are supported by LineageOS (usually second hand). Not ideal, but it's the best I've found so far. I guess paying $150 for a fully up-to-date phone that was worth $700 just two years ago isn't such a bad deal.

The last time I tried to install LineageOS on my phone I had to execute a non-reproducible binary of some anonymous haxxor to flash the OS. I remember I could have build my own image from source, but the only documentation was spread over a thread on a message board with a couple hundred pages... and if you screw your build you brick your device.
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