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There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

danluu.com

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Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#271
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem that you don't notice is the lack of security updates.

FWIW, the linked article doesn't track security update status at all. It's graphing percentiles based on API version, which correlates only weakly. A vendor with a correctly patched but old OS would show up as "out of date", but one that missed or is late on important security updates on a recent version is "current".

Do vendors distribute security patches?

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#272

I've got a 7 or 8 year old Google Nexus phone. Google stopped updating the OS 5 years ago. The only impact I've noticed is that newer apps won't run on and older OS. For me, however, that really isn't a problem since I use it for making and receiving calls and texts, and checking my email. Right now, I'm in no hurry to lay out hundreds for a new phone, Apple or Android, that will be obsoleted in just a couple years w…

Many Android devices of that age and even newer had flaws resulting in the failure to properly validate HTTPS connections as they would accept invalid certificates. As a result, every time I fire up an off the shelf WiFi Pineapple in public and run SSLSplit (not to be confused with Moxies SSLStrip), I get credential after credential, typically starting with e-mail accounts. This is obviously bad because if someone is…

> This is obviously bad because if someone is using an e-mail account on their phone for banking, an attacker could gain access to account recovery.

I'm still using a iPhone4 with iOS 5.something on it, it's obviously un-patched or anything like that, the secret is that I don't have any baking applications installed on it nor is my email attached to any recurring payments scheme. The even deeper secret is that I don't have an online baking account set-up with my bank at all, as I don't trust any of the banks with their online security. I chose to eat up the opportunity costs of actually physically going to the the bank over the sometimes illusory security and ease-of-use offered by online banking.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem that you don't notice is the lack of security updates.

You can but hope that once it’s old enough, the hackers will stop worrying about supporting it.

When "the hackers" consist of the CIA and NSA, you can be sure that they will not.

Take a quick look at the Vault7 leaks for a reference.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#274
I wonder if Google will brag about that number at its next I/O event. "We're now at 1.3 billion outdated Android devices in-use" - Applause

I've lost hope that Google will ever do anything meaningful about this situation, when they can't even approach the iPhone in updates when their very own Pixel devices. This is despite now having a standard hardware abstraction framework for their devices and having a kernel that will be supported for 6 years. Even so, they can't commit to updating their devices for the time these devices for at least 80% of their lifecycles.

What's a smartphone lifecycle? Well it's certainly not 2 years. The 2 year old phones will not just be thrown into the garbage. They'll either be sold on second hand markets or they'll be given to other family members, who will then use it for at least another 2 years themselves.

Google, and really all makers of "smart" devices, should be supporting hardware at least until only 10-20% of those devices remain in active use. Kind of like how Microsoft couldn't quit supporting Windows XP when it was at 20%, even though it was already like 12 years old. Only when Windows XP got to below 10% or something, Microsoft stopped supporting it for consumers at least, and even then it will be supported until 2019 for enterprise customers.

Ideally this is how all devices should be supported - until they have fewer than 10% of the customers use them anymore. But as an absolute minimum, they should at least follow the 80/20 power Pareto principle, and update the devices until less than 20% of the people use them anymore.

I know this logic isn't totally alien to Google because they are applying it to the supported OS versions by their Play services and APIs for Android.

If 25% of the Pixel 2 devices (which come with Project Treble and a 6-year supported LTS kernel) are still in active use after 3 years, then Google should be supporting the Pixel 2 for at least 4 years (at least with security patches). But as I said, this should be the bare minimum, like something I'd expect from LG. Google should not stop support until fewer than 10% of the Pixel 2 users have stopped using it.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#275
post #188

If it is a problem to update smartphones, I just don't want to imagine the nightmare that is going to be on our doorstep with IoT updates...

To borrow another quip -- the "U" in IoT stands for updates.

Just like the "S" in it stands for security.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#276
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security, basically. If you care about your privacy, you should care about security (can't have one with the other). You need updated phone for that.

Security isn't as big of an issue with many of these devices as you might think. Unless it is years out of date, Play Services still gets updates, the system web view still gets updated, Chrome still gets updates, and in many cases the vendor will still roll out an emergency patch if there is something serious.

- Bluetooth driver does not get an update - SSL is not updated - kernel is not updated

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#277
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That already happened as a result of Equifax. Your SSN is no longer secret...so rejoice, you are free to choose whatever phone you like!

Sadly, the world is not America and most people on this planet are unaffected by the latest problems of America.

s/Sadly/Fortunately/

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#278
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phones already come with two persistent implants - the user-antagonistic OS, and the baseband processor! I'm all for trusting computing devices to act as one's agents, but attempting to do so with anything resembling a modern mobile phone is barking up the wrong tree. Even though just having one means taking the location-tracking hit from negligently designed cellular protocols, further exposure can be mitigated…

Your phone will probably turn up in a botnet soon enough, but atleast you had the moral high ground.

Do you have an actual number for "probably" - assuming normal browsing habits (i.e. not to the sort of porn site with a higher likelihood of installing malware), and an outdated version of iOS or Android?

How is that number changed by not using public wifi?

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#279
Part of the reason for this mess is the greed of manufacturers, they want us to buy new devices every 2 years. Consider mid-range devices from OnePlus, Xiaomi and Samsung, these are intentionally sold at a lower price to users who like budget phones and if you would see the device manufacturer distribution list these devices top the list in number of units sold, this is especially true in developing countries. These phones seldom get updates after the (T + 2) cycle.

I hope that with introduction of project Treble this trend can be reversed, Google is literally forcing these greedy manufacturers to include Treble if they ship devices with Oreo and above, but this doesn't mean we will see updates as frequent as iOS anytime soon, one thing I observed lately is that after announcement of project Treble almost all manufacturers are releasing newer phones with Nougat 7.1, this is funny considering that it's mid November now and Oreo was released way back in August.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#280
The real problem with mobile devices is that it costs $600-$1000 for a security patch. And when you get it, you'll also be stuck with inferior hardware as a side effect of that very expensive security patch. A device that used to be multifunctional but now is no longer useful for phone calls, music, or videos because it doesn't have a headphone port. One that used to be mobile but now requires you to stay tethered to an outlet because you can no longer switch out to a spare battery. One that's even thinner and more likely to break.

People would like to be secure, but they shouldn't have to pay that much for a security patch and they don't want to downgrade their systems.

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