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The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

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Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#41

Post by edejong »

outworlder wrote: post #19
edejong wrote: post #18

97% accuracy seems high, but with an approximate sales number of 10 million Apple watches, it will give 300 thousand users an incorrect diagnosis.

Which is not so bad. They can follow up and figure it out. Some people will go for decades before getting a proper diagnostic - or even die before they get one.

Unfortunately, most arrhythmias are benign and do not lead to further treatment from a physician. So you are taking 300,000 worried people wrongly to a general practitioner, who in fact can do nothing but write down the event and perhaps correlate it with other data.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#42

Post by PierceJoy »

cjslep wrote: post #40
PierceJoy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters". It seems like a fallacy to claim that since diagnosis required complicated equipment in the past, that it will be necessary going forward. Machine learning is going to make tons of current diagnostic equipment look archaic in comparison. > I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices f…

It seems a fallacy to say that "machine learning" will replace the sensors needed to produce the data required to make a diagnosis. Sure the sensors can always be in a smaller, simpler form factor, but that's engineering the sensors specifically. You need data to make a diagnosis, and the magic of machine learning can't replace raw data coming from sensors. I see this kind of confusion a lot, where "machine learning"…

> It seems a fallacy to say that "machine learning" will replace the sensors needed to produce the data required to make a diagnosis.

I agree. Good thing I didn't say that :) My comment implied exactly what you wrote, that the machinery will get smaller, and machine learning will be able to make more accurate predictions from a more limited data set. Although, if we consider that the Apple Watch will be strapped to your wrist for 16 hours a day, it might actually turn out to be an expanded data set, but a smaller number of sources.

> I see this kind of confusion a lot, where "machine learning" is mistakenly used to mean obsoleting sensor data instead of obsoleting the hardcoded processing of said data.

I believe that's a misinterpretation on your part. I haven't seen anyone claim that machine learning doesn't require data from sensors.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#43

Post by xrayarx »

brandonb wrote: post #3

I'm one of the co-founders of Cardiogram and involved in this study -- happy to answer questions if folks have them! (EDIT: heading to bed, but will answer questions in the morning!)

Is it this https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/cardiogram-for-apple-watch/i... ?

Could you please state, if the app can currently do that?

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#44

Post by benevol »

It's quite interesting - the way we have evolved as a society has completely broken the link between "us and our body". We have stopped listening to it a long time ago. If we really listened to our bodies, we wouldn't eat/drink/consume stuff we don't need, we wouldn't be overweight, and we'd rapidly be aware of any health-related imbalance which needs restoring.

But no, we forget our original (and free-of-charge) way of functioning and desperately turn to commercial and unnatural solutions.

As a start, I recommend looking into the mindful meditation technique, championed by pioneers like John Kabat-Zinn.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#45

Post by ryan-allen »

benevol wrote: post #44

It's quite interesting - the way we have evolved as a society has completely broken the link between "us and our body". We have stopped listening to it a long time ago. If we really listened to our bodies, we wouldn't eat/drink/consume stuff we don't need, we wouldn't be overweight, and we'd rapidly be aware of any health-related imbalance which needs restoring. But no, we forget our original (and free-of-charge) way…

Hypertension presents no symptoms and left undiagnosed can lead to kidney failure. It's often referred to by doctors as 'the silent killer', and you don't need to eat like shit and be fat to have it.

Going to your GP 2-3 times a year and getting your blood pressure checked (and your blood tested for the 'regular stuff') solves the problem. 'Listening to your body' pseudoscience doesn't really solve the problem.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#46

Post by jen729w »

ryan-allen wrote: post #45
benevol wrote: post #44

It's quite interesting - the way we have evolved as a society has completely broken the link between "us and our body". We have stopped listening to it a long time ago. If we really listened to our bodies, we wouldn't eat/drink/consume stuff we don't need, we wouldn't be overweight, and we'd rapidly be aware of any health-related imbalance which needs restoring. But no, we forget our original (and free-of-charge) way…

Hypertension presents no symptoms and left undiagnosed can lead to kidney failure. It's often referred to by doctors as 'the silent killer', and you don't need to eat like shit and be fat to have it. Going to your GP 2-3 times a year and getting your blood pressure checked (and your blood tested for the 'regular stuff') solves the problem. 'Listening to your body' pseudoscience doesn't really solve the problem.

When I had a medical test for my Australian permanent residency - full thorax x-ray, HIV test, the works - I asked the doctor doing the final once-over if "a routine checkup" is something I should be doing.

He asked me how old I was. 30-ish, at the time. He asked me if I felt healthy. Yep.

He said no, don't bother.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#47

Post by dan00 »

ryan-allen wrote: post #45
benevol wrote: post #44

It's quite interesting - the way we have evolved as a society has completely broken the link between "us and our body". We have stopped listening to it a long time ago. If we really listened to our bodies, we wouldn't eat/drink/consume stuff we don't need, we wouldn't be overweight, and we'd rapidly be aware of any health-related imbalance which needs restoring. But no, we forget our original (and free-of-charge) way…

Hypertension presents no symptoms and left undiagnosed can lead to kidney failure. It's often referred to by doctors as 'the silent killer', and you don't need to eat like shit and be fat to have it. Going to your GP 2-3 times a year and getting your blood pressure checked (and your blood tested for the 'regular stuff') solves the problem. 'Listening to your body' pseudoscience doesn't really solve the problem.

> 'Listening to your body' pseudoscience doesn't really solve the problem.

Well, all the big health issues in our societies are about giving a shit about your body.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#49

Post by fleetingmoments »

rvanmil wrote: post #37
fleetingmoments wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What input signals do you have access to through the Apple Watch? Is it only Heart Rate output or do you get the actual interbeat intervals? Any chance of getting to the raw ADC output of the photodiode?

I've written a blog about this a while ago [0]. You're limited to what HealthKit allows you to query and the RR intervals are not available. With the release of WatchOS 4 however the SDNN heart rate variability can be queried. [0] https://www.vanmil.org/heart-rate-variability-and-brain-wave...

Interesting, thanks!
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