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The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

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Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#33

Post by PierceJoy »

demomode wrote: post #27

As someone with diagnosed apnea I have so many doubts about this. Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters". I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices for apnea control or detection, all I got was laughs. Sorry but I think this is not true. Go and see your doctor.

> Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters".

It seems like a fallacy to claim that since diagnosis required complicated equipment in the past, that it will be necessary going forward. Machine learning is going to make tons of current diagnostic equipment look archaic in comparison.

> I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices for apnea control or detection, all I got was laughs.

Medical doctors are rarely up to date on the latest technology. I wouldn't be surprised if my doctor has never heard the term machine learning before in his life.

Also, their livelihood kind of depends on this technology not being available. Just food for thought.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#34

Post by downandout »

I'm skeptical about the accuracy of applications like this running on Apple Watch. I bought the Apple Watch Series 3 precisely because of articles like this. I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop. If it can't accurately tell whether you're lying down or standing, it is unimaginable to me that it could be remotely accurate in detecting far more complex conditions.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#37

Post by rvanmil »

fleetingmoments wrote: post #28
brandonb wrote: post #3

I'm one of the co-founders of Cardiogram and involved in this study -- happy to answer questions if folks have them! (EDIT: heading to bed, but will answer questions in the morning!)

What input signals do you have access to through the Apple Watch? Is it only Heart Rate output or do you get the actual interbeat intervals? Any chance of getting to the raw ADC output of the photodiode?

I've written a blog about this a while ago [0]. You're limited to what HealthKit allows you to query and the RR intervals are not available. With the release of WatchOS 4 however the SDNN heart rate variability can be queried.

[0] https://www.vanmil.org/heart-rate-variability-and-brain-wave...

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#38

Post by doikor »

downandout wrote: post #34

I'm skeptical about the accuracy of applications like this running on Apple Watch. I bought the Apple Watch Series 3 precisely because of articles like this. I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop. If it can't accurately tell whether you're lying down or standing, it is unimaginable to me that it could be remotely accurate in dete…

> I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop.

I routinely get messages about having to stand up while standing up on my standing desk at work. (Series 2 here)

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#39

Post by knolan »

doikor wrote: post #38
downandout wrote: post #34

I'm skeptical about the accuracy of applications like this running on Apple Watch. I bought the Apple Watch Series 3 precisely because of articles like this. I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop. If it can't accurately tell whether you're lying down or standing, it is unimaginable to me that it could be remotely accurate in dete…

> I now routinely get messages about how I've achieved my standing goal - while lying in bed watching TV or working on my laptop. I routinely get messages about having to stand up while standing up on my standing desk at work. (Series 2 here)

That’s supposedly expected behaviour. When I’m standing at my rig in the lab it pings me to stand, just like when I sit at my desk. This actually means get up and/or walk about — which usually works to fill that segment of the ring. But I also get false stands when sitting too.

I’ve a series 0 however with the lesser sensor heart rate sensor so I don’t get any of these new cardio features.

Re: The Apple Watch can detect hypertension and sleep apnea, a new study suggests

#40

Post by cjslep »

PierceJoy wrote: post #33
demomode wrote: post #27

As someone with diagnosed apnea I have so many doubts about this. Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters". I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices for apnea control or detection, all I got was laughs. Sorry but I think this is not true. Go and see your doctor.

> Machines to diagnose apnea have lots of sensors including electrodes, "chest-band" pulsometers, and "saturationmeters". It seems like a fallacy to claim that since diagnosis required complicated equipment in the past, that it will be necessary going forward. Machine learning is going to make tons of current diagnostic equipment look archaic in comparison. > I have asked doctors about capabilities of smart devices f…

It seems a fallacy to say that "machine learning" will replace the sensors needed to produce the data required to make a diagnosis. Sure the sensors can always be in a smaller, simpler form factor, but that's engineering the sensors specifically. You need data to make a diagnosis, and the magic of machine learning can't replace raw data coming from sensors.

I see this kind of confusion a lot, where "machine learning" is mistakenly used to mean obsoleting sensor data instead of obsoleting the hardcoded processing of said data.

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