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Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

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Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#111
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should make life difficult for companies from a certain size on. These large companies kill competition and innovation.

20 years ago, people wondered could anyone overtake Microsoft. But look at the big tech companies now. 1. Apple -- approaching a one trillion dollar market cap was almost bankrupt 20 years ago. 2. Amazon -- a little spunky online book seller 3 Google - a little research project that wasn't even incorporated 4 Facebook -- wouldn't exist for 7 years. As hard as MS tried, they weren't able to kill competition.

In other words: Unless you kill all competition forever, you aren't killing competition at all?

Should we apply the same to homicides? Unless you kill everyone with no survivors left, you didn't kill anyone?

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't like Google don't use it. What happens when people don't know they're using Google? I have an Android phone and one thing that is bugging me is how the default browser on the bottom "toolbar" is in fact named "Internet". This may be fine for techies like you and me, but I'm concerned for the older folk who may have difficulty with technology or non-techies. In this case, if one just went with the defau…

Remember that old story back when Internet Explorer was dominating the market, and most people surveyed couldn't tell the difference between the web and a web browser? They pointed to the "e" browser logo and said, "That's the internet!" How did that whole trying to use their monopoly to dominate the market work out for Microsoft in hindsight? There was time that AOL was the number one ISP and MySpace was the number…

Yeah, how did it work out that the EU forced Microsoft to unbundle its browser?

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#113
post #55

Yay! I am happy about this. I feel as if there are a ton of monopolies and trusts today that stifle competition. Does anyone else feel similar?

I don't. Why do we want or even trust government to decide for us that a company is too big and needs to be smaller or that a company should conducts it business in the way that the government wants it to. As long as a company isn't somehow forcing me to use it services, I'm free to go elsewhere. If you don't like Google don't use it. The fact that you desire something from Google that it isn't giving you (searching…

> As long as a company isn't somehow forcing me to use it services, I'm free to go elsewhere.

You might want to educate yourself on an economic concept called network effects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

> The fact that you desire something from Google that it isn't giving you (searching with more privacy, better free email service, whatever) doesn't give you some sort of moral claim against the company.

Doesn't that depend on what it is that you expect and which role Google (or any other company or person) plays in withholding whatever it is that you do expect from you?

> The public can vote for other companies by buying from or using them.

Well, yes, it can, and one way to implement that is by organizing a government that enforces it, no?

If your argument is that people can do so through independent individual decisions: Well, to some degree they can, but even then I don't see why they necessarily should? If Google, say, can organize a ton of people to work unified towards its goals, why shouldn't the public at large do the same?

But I guess more importantly: To a large degree, you actually can't. Where network effects or scaling efficiencies are involved, there are many situations in which it would be a huge sacrifice with extremely high risk to individually decide against the (quasi-)monopoly, even though overall society would be better off if many people did. In such situations, coordination between actors is required to achieve the better outcome for everyone. That is a role that government can play: To enable coordination between members of a public in order to reach the critical mass that is necessary to move from a (quasi-)monopolistic equilibrium to the overall better equilibrium of multiple competing offers.

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU doesn't fine to fund itself. Fines are not a good funding source.

Just look at where cops do traffic monitoring (aka speed traps). In Germany they are supposed to put speed traps in areas with a large amount of accidents caused by speeding, but many end up being placed simply where people casually speed in tiny amounts (e.g. 20 km/h too fast is 30€)... and a single trap can bring 15M € per year ( http://www.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de/inhalt.verkehrsueberwa... ). In total, speed tra…

Speeding fines can only be levied by the municipality in which the violation took place. That's exactly one entity.

What you didn't mention is that (since removed) 15 M€ speeding trap was located on a downhill stretch with a high risk of traffic jams and not only placed for revenue.

German speeding fines are minuscule in international comparison. Just try "casually speeding" 20 km/h in any neighboring country.

Speeding is a German national sport leading to a vicious circle of decreasing limits even further.

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My definition doesn’t require a commercial interest. It’s just amazing to me in an age where politicians are typically benefitting their or their crony’s commercial interests that a guy who is elected on a populist platform is accused of having an ulterior motive for defending the interests of the people as he promised, because that might cause his constituents to elect him to a different office and serve them furthe…

Among other things, this seems to carry the implicit premise that prosecuting Google for antitrust violations is a populist issue. I would wager that if you polled it, you would find the exact opposite.

Perhaps you might want to give this a read if you think Google’s power is of no concern:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/technology/frightful-five...

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Missouri make this a fair fight? The power of government. Missouri can definitely pay for quite a few attorneys (maybe do a tobacco litigation type deal) but the danger is that other states will join in. Having taken on Google can be quite a thing on your resume as you seek higher office...who will resist it?

Surely you mean the taxpayers of Missouri will be paying for a long and protracted legal battle. And once they find out the amount they paid to pad his resume they'll have a thing or two to say on how Missouri funds were used.

Always been like that. But personally I think Google should be investigated and stopped, smaller companies will again have a chance.

I assume that they are safeguards: the governor might be able to intervene if an AG goes nuts, the courts etc etc.

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at where cops do traffic monitoring (aka speed traps). In Germany they are supposed to put speed traps in areas with a large amount of accidents caused by speeding, but many end up being placed simply where people casually speed in tiny amounts (e.g. 20 km/h too fast is 30€)... and a single trap can bring 15M € per year ( http://www.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de/inhalt.verkehrsueberwa... ). In total, speed tra…

Speeding fines can only be levied by the municipality in which the violation took place. That's exactly one entity. What you didn't mention is that (since removed) 15 M€ speeding trap was located on a downhill stretch with a high risk of traffic jams and not only placed for revenue. German speeding fines are minuscule in international comparison. Just try "casually speeding" 20 km/h in any neighboring country. Speedi…

> Speeding fines can only be levied by the municipality in which the violation took place. That's exactly one entity.

No, it's two entities at the least in urban areas: the police and the municipality.

> German speeding fines are minuscule in international comparison.

Yes, which makes people speed in higher amounts and only because of this the system of traps bringing in 15M+€ actually works - yes you get the occasional dumb moron with 50+ km/h, but the most part is netted by the small fish speeding 10-20 km/h.

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't really Youtube though. I can go on youtube to listen to music or watch a video on rebuilding a carburetor self-published by some random guy, or catch a movie trailer, or even publish my own videos.

You can get money directly from the viewers with twitch, therefore making it far superior than YouTube. The idea that YouTube is monopoly because people are to afraid of moving to other options is silly

You can get money directly from viewers on youtube too.

https://youtube-creators.googleblog.com/2017/09/a-new-way-to...

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7277005

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that old story back when Internet Explorer was dominating the market, and most people surveyed couldn't tell the difference between the web and a web browser? They pointed to the "e" browser logo and said, "That's the internet!" How did that whole trying to use their monopoly to dominate the market work out for Microsoft in hindsight? There was time that AOL was the number one ISP and MySpace was the number…

Yeah, how did it work out that the EU forced Microsoft to unbundle its browser?

It's not "unbundling" the browser that caused Microsoft to lose its dominance in the technology industry. None of the big four major technology companies today - Apple, Google, Facebook, and Amazon -depend on their browser being dominant. Microsoft failed to take advantage of the next major technology waves - mobile, search, social, and ecommerce.

Unbundling the browser didn't help the other browser manufacturers.

Re: Missouri Attorney General launches investigation of Google

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years ago, people wondered could anyone overtake Microsoft. But look at the big tech companies now. 1. Apple -- approaching a one trillion dollar market cap was almost bankrupt 20 years ago. 2. Amazon -- a little spunky online book seller 3 Google - a little research project that wasn't even incorporated 4 Facebook -- wouldn't exist for 7 years. As hard as MS tried, they weren't able to kill competition.

Microsoft's troubles started after the DOJ antitrust investigations. I think if Microsoft had been allowed to aggressively leverage their Windows monopoly as they wished, we woul be looking at a far different landscape now

Did the DOJ stop MS from trying to compete in Music - where Apple first mounted its comeback before the iPhone. No, Microsoft has tried and failed at music four times.

Did the DOJ prevent Microsoft from trying to compete at search - where Google dominates. No, MS has poured billions in Bing.

MS didn't try to compete in social or ecommerce.

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