Men at Work Wonder If They Overstepped with Women, Too

I think the second order effects here are under appreciated. Ponder, which of these is overstepping?

* Telling someone they look good today

* Telling someone a very funny, yet lewd joke that you just thought up

* Inviting someone for a drink after work

* Telling someone they should dress better

* Telling someone they are too uptight

* Telling someone that, if they were nicer, they might get ahead more

* Inviting a co-worker to a party with lots of alcohol (example given in article)

You might think, "This is easy, clearly XYZ above are fine whereas ABC are not or could be questionable." But here's the problem: For a man talking to a man, all of the above are just plain fine.

Some may think that even in very low risk interactions, "why take the risk, if it could be misconstrued?" In a very tiny way even asking these questions opens me up to the risk of someone suggesting I'm some kind of sexist/bigot/etc, even though I'm only trying to be descriptive and not normative here, because someone may misinterpret a position here. In fact I'm sure there are plenty of people who would never comment on an article like this. But I bet they'll talk to their male co-workers about it, in private.

Which is kind of the rub. The net result of this round of men-wondering-of-they-are-overstepping may be even more boys club behavior than before.

How is it possible for men to treat women equally with other men, if it introduces such risk? I've seen all sorts of people advocating positions that boil down to "Don't make any friends at work, work is a place for work and nothing else." This seems like a losing strategy.

Not all difficult problems have broad solutions. Sometimes, spraying a pesticide increases the level of pests.

> Still, some workers said they were starting to follow “the Pence rule,” which was formerly known as the Billy Graham rule, after the evangelical preacher, but is now named for Vice President Mike Pence. Mr. Pence has said he does not eat alone with women who are not his wife or attend an event without her if alcohol will be served.

Maybe it is worth noting that Women are more likely than men to endorse Mike-Pence-style inter-gender workplace norms. From the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/upshot/members-of-the-opp...

"Conservative politicians can't survive that sort of scandal"

Alabama is about to elect a senator in the middle of 5 under-aged sexual assault allegations. Times have changed!

> so I just play it super safe with everybody

Yes, except not with everybody, you don't play it super safe with men, as you pointed out. That's the whole problem.

I treat all interactions with coworkers (male or female or otherwise) as if I were under surveillance by the KGB or Stasi, and any sort of misstep would mean imprisonment or death. I also refuse to ever drink with coworkers. It's worked out so far.

A woman at work constantly speaks in tones of sexual innuendo, when she comes over to someone asking for help or whatever, she leans over you and places her hand on your shoulder or thigh. As a man in today’s climate the double standard is painfully obvious. Follow her example and you’d be on your ass fast.