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There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

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Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#131

Post by _ea1k »

shp0ngle wrote: post #57
userbinator wrote: post #48

With current and older devices working perfectly well, and new devices being even less serviceable and more user-hostile with greater efforts towards planned obolescence, is it any wonder that people just aren't "upgrading" any more? I don't consider this a problem, but a sign of an ecosystem that is gaining stability. In fact I'd say it's even better, from an e-waste perspective, that the amount of churn has decreas…

Security, basically. If you care about your privacy, you should care about security (can't have one with the other). You need updated phone for that.

Security isn't as big of an issue with many of these devices as you might think. Unless it is years out of date, Play Services still gets updates, the system web view still gets updated, Chrome still gets updates, and in many cases the vendor will still roll out an emergency patch if there is something serious.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#132

Post by [deleted] »

Nuance wrote: post #113
userbinator wrote: post #48

With current and older devices working perfectly well, and new devices being even less serviceable and more user-hostile with greater efforts towards planned obolescence, is it any wonder that people just aren't "upgrading" any more? I don't consider this a problem, but a sign of an ecosystem that is gaining stability. In fact I'd say it's even better, from an e-waste perspective, that the amount of churn has decreas…

How are you so certain obsolescence is planned?

[deleted]

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#133

Post by on_and_off »

LandoCalrissian wrote: post #47
thomastjeffery wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem that you don't notice is the lack of security updates.

Right? It may still largely be functional, but I would never trust that device in the open, it's just ripe for a bevy of attacks. I really wish Google would expand their service lifetime on their own devices, because I feel 2 years is really too short.

It is 3 years now with the new pixel. Still too little in my opinion.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#134

Post by _ea1k »

userbinator wrote: post #48

With current and older devices working perfectly well, and new devices being even less serviceable and more user-hostile with greater efforts towards planned obolescence, is it any wonder that people just aren't "upgrading" any more? I don't consider this a problem, but a sign of an ecosystem that is gaining stability. In fact I'd say it's even better, from an e-waste perspective, that the amount of churn has decreas…

Exactly, my phone is marooned on Android 6.x, and I really can't say that I care about this at all. I'll replace it after it is a few years old with something newer and similarly inexpensive.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#135

Post by scarface74 »

jorvi wrote: post #123
scarface74 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I have a first generation iPad (running iOS 5) that I rediscovered when I moved. I reset it because I forgot the password. Hulu, Netflix, Crackle, theCW, Plex, Google Drive, CBS (?), and Spotify still work. Apple's productivity apps (Pages,Numbers, and Keynote) also still work and sync with iCloud. On the other hand, I also rediscovered an old first generation iPod Touch (iOS 3). Nothing that requires network ac…

This[0] could give your iPod Touch a slight kick in the butt, and this[1] for your iPad, if you feel inclined to keep using them. [0] http://www.whited00r.com/index?lang=en [1] http://www.grayd00r.com

That's really cool. I'm going to definitely try it on my old iPod Touch.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#136

Post by mschuster91 »

scarface74 wrote: post #114
kuschku wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows has mostly kept a stable driver API. And whenever they broke that API, that actually happened — suddenly updates stopped being usable by your system. Also, be aware that ARM has nothing to enumerate devices, has no BISO or UEFI. An OS image will only ever work on a single device. As I detailed in another comment in this thread, the issue is this collision of the Linux concept of mainlining everything, short s…

Windows driver API has been far from stable from Windows Vista. One of my computers came with Windows Vista (a 2009 Dell Pentium Dual Core - not the Core 2 Duo I referenced) and it still runs Windows 10. Microsoft provided drivers for the standard PC hardware that was in my 2006 Core Duo Mac Mini and Windows 7 recognized all of my hardware - usb, sound, graphics, Bluetooth, Ethernet etc. Microsoft goes out of its way…

> But why are printer drivers still a thing? Apple introduced AirPrint for iOS 4 back in 2010 and for MacOS a few years later.

Have you looked at the unimaginable amount of crap a typical Windows printer driver forces upon you? It's not just the driver, it's usually also a stripped down license of some image editor, an "update agent" (because Windows 7 does not have an "app store" or a centralized driver distribution that does not phone home like Windows Update does and often enough carries fossilized drivers only), a toolbar for multifunction printers, a watcher that nags you to buy new original cartridges, a scanner agent because there is still no standard for scanning without drivers, much less so over network or cross platform, a selection of adware... and God help you if you have printers or MFDs from different vendors.

The only way to not have this ridiculous mess is buying enterprise printers - for example, the Z2100 plotter drivers are 4MB for Windows, and 16MB for the manager app, while the Photosmart printer driver can only be had as a part of a 145MB download, there is no such thing as a "driver only" package in the consumer space. In enterprise environments (or small offices) the situation sucks even more because you can't really deploy them via GPO, you have to extract the drivers by hand.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#137

Post by voltagex_ »

kbwt wrote: post #100
ekianjo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hosted on a dubious server with no guarantee at all there is no malware in it.

It's remarkable how fishy the whole ecosystem around Android ROMs and flashing tools really is. 95% of the posts are in barely comprehensible English. Seemingly every guide tells you to run a random binary from a file sharing host or generic domain. As a rule, source code is non-existent. Downloads are attributable to a forum handle in the best case. Oh and you have to run it with elevated privileges to both your hos…

Yep. It's better than it was - most XDA developers understand what a GPL violation is.

I imported my Galaxy S8+ to save over $400AUD on retail. This meant I needed to find a ROM on an obscure site to flash to the phone using a stolen (?) piece of factory software. I can only trust my phone because a Samsung in default configuration won't accept a "modified" update - only one from and signed (?) by Samsung themselves.

Is LineageOS still using "test-keys"? It's been possible to do much better for years: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/31765.html

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#138

Post by asveikau »

kuschku wrote: post #99
scarface74 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. It's all Google's fault. I don't have to wait for the manufacturer to update my Windows PC. Heck I was able to install Windows 7 on a Mac Mini without any support from Apple. Not to mention I updated a 9 year old Dell Core 2 Duo to Windows 10.

Windows has mostly kept a stable driver API. And whenever they broke that API, that actually happened — suddenly updates stopped being usable by your system. Also, be aware that ARM has nothing to enumerate devices, has no BISO or UEFI. An OS image will only ever work on a single device. As I detailed in another comment in this thread, the issue is this collision of the Linux concept of mainlining everything, short s…

Why does the kernel and driver ABI matter for upgrading userland? On desktop Linux I can by and large use a new kernel and chroot into an old install, or vice versa, and things still work. It would seem that Android userland is unnecessarily coupled to a specific kernel version. It should be able to upgrade independently.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#139

Post by kbwt »

flukus wrote: post #23
na85 wrote: post #4

Having to wait and sometimes pray for your vendor to ship an update is why I chose to stick to the Nexus line of phones until it ended. My next device may or may not be a Pixel, but the above coupled with the shitty "value adds" like custom file managers and stuff that Samsung et al tend to cram into their already bloated Android implementations pretty much guarantees I'll never by a Samsung or similar. My wife's Gal…

Updates for 2 years, security patches for 3: http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/08/05/google-announces-new... That is still way to short, especially if you don't buy it on release day. If you buy a nexus device 12 months after release you've already lost 1/3 of it's effective lifetime.

I bought a Galaxy Nexus for Android app development in September 2012 and it lasted me less than a year before security updates ended. I specifically picked that phone because it was supposed to be the best choice for always receiving the latest Android updates.

Re: There are over a billion outdated Android devices in use

#140

Post by nigma »

Why software updates and especially security bug fixes are not covered by manufacturer warranty as it is with hardware issues? Or maybe they are but no one enforces that?

In other words if I buy a phone with 2y warranty (a standard duration in many European countries) it would be reasonable to expect that any security updates (device fixes) will be provided in a reasonable time within that period starting from the purchase date.

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